Peter and Dana

[Fritz]

Okay....time to tackle some of these Subjects We Probably Couldn't Anywhere Else...

The relationship with Peter Venkman and Dana Barrett was at the center of both of the Ghostbuster movies, but was seriously not served well by the cartoon series--where Dana Barrett is not even mentioned.

Granted, this worked out well before GB2--since it was revealed that in the interim, she'd busted up with Venkman and married "The Stiff" (Andre Wallance).

So what do you think? Do you buy into the idea that Dana shouldn't even have been in GB2? Should she have at least been in the cartoon after GB2? At least mentioned?

I admit, it took me a while when I got into GB fandom to warm to the idea of Venkman and Dana ending up together. Not because I was against it, mind you, or one of those tards who though he should end up with Janine or something like that (yeah, I know, but they're out there : But admittedly I'd formulated the idea that she was the "secret hurt" behind his lizardlike activities...I'd mined it for a little bit of pathos in some of my first stories (Invasion of the Danish Snatchers or the original version of Charlie Takes the Fifth)

But heck, just to show I'm not inflexible, I followed what most of the rest of fandom wanted--it didn't hurt the idea that Rosey developed a great take on the Venkman family, including her creation of Peter and Dana's daughter Jessica.

But enough about me--what do the rest of you have to say?

[Silent Seraphim]

Fritz said:

Okay....time to tackle some of these Subjects We Probably Couldn't Anywhere Else...

Yay!!!

Fritz said:

But enough about me--what do the rest of you have to say?

Well, I’m totally in two minds about this one. I’d have to say I’d have preferred that she wasn’t in the second film. I’m of the frame of mind that if Louis and Dana hadn’t been there, the whole thing could have gone off in a much different direction, and it wouldn’t have seemed so much of a replay of the first film.

I’d also like to say that I, too, feel that Dana could have been the driving force behind some of Venkman’s antics. Personally, I like to feel that his womanising ways in RGB were an attempt to try to find someone to replace Dana in his heart.

However, I also like the idea of a truly free and single Venkman, without much in the way of an ultimate love of his life. I also don’t entirely feel comfortable with Dana and Venkman as a married couple with kids (although I do absolutely adore the character of Jessica Venkman and her very close relationship to Oscar). To me, she didn’t exactly seem to be his type, in either of the films. When Venkman proclaimed his love for her in GB1, I found myself asking why. I don’t hate the character of Dana at all, but I do think she could have done with loosening up a little bit.

I hate to say it, and I know Fritz would probably cast me down to the tenth level of hell for this, but Janine’s character is the type of person I think Peter would probably be better suited with. I’m NOT saying that Janine and Peter should be together; their relationship is far too brotherly/sisterly for that. However, I do think that she’s got the personality that I think would be a great equal for him. I’ve read some pretty good Peter/Janine stories, and I can see why people would see them as a couple. He needs someone who would tolerate his jokes, who would join in the fun, and would verbally spar with him. I think Dana was too much of a straight-guy. She seemed like the headmistress in the scenario, rather than the carefree kind of person that I think he would have been better suited with. I know Dana was a challenge to him, but I just think that being the kind of guy he is, he needs someone who will give him hell when he needs pulling up a bit, but also humouring him when he is in his more vulnerable moods and needs a little comfort.

Knowing Venkman’s vanity, he’d probably feel better with a female version of himself. Now that would be a fanfiction challenge! ;D

[Fritz]

I dunno...I kind of found myself looking at it like this: if Venkman and Janine have a lot of similarities in background and outlook, it'd make sense that both of them might be attracted to people with similar qualities: less emotional, more, well, "refined" for lack of a better word. Dana isn't a brilliant physicist, but she is of a more cultured background.

I can see it, to some small degree, as a mirror of Egon and Janine with the genders reversed.

It's an interesting thought experiment to think how she would've come across if she'd been in the cartoon--the chemistry between our conjectural cartoon voice actress and Lorenzo Music and/or Dave Coulier could've helped defeat some of our ambivalence one way or another.

Of course, some of the Venkman girls would probably hate Dana even more than they do now (lol)

[Silent Seraphim]

Fritz said:

I dunno...I kind of found myself looking at it like this: if Venkman and Janine have a lot of similarities in background and outlook, it'd make sense that both of them might be attracted to people with similar qualities: less emotional, more, well, "refined" for lack of a better word. Dana isn't a brilliant physicist, but she is of a more cultured background.

I can see it, to some small degree, as a mirror of Egon and Janine with the genders reversed.

Actually, I must admit I hadn’t thought of it like that. I suppose she does even out Venkman’s more comical/gameshow personality, and steadies out his frantic lifestyle. She would provide the calming influence he would probably need. And of course it helps that she’s attractive. ;D

However, I can still see why people would pair Peter with someone with a similar attitude to Janine’s, who can give him as good as she gets. It probably would make the relationship kind of fiery, but then it would be slightly more exciting to watch than with someone as dependable as Dana.

I think someone of Egon’s type really does need to be partnered with Janine much more than someone of Dana’s type would need Venkman. It’s probably why she gave him the brush off at the beginning of GB1. Obviously her opinion of him wasn't helped when he told her he loved her within a few minutes of meeting her.

Fritz said:

It's an interesting thought experiment to think how she would've come across if she'd been in the cartoon--the chemistry between our conjectural cartoon voice actress and Lorenzo Music and/or Dave Coulier could've helped defeat some of our ambivalence one way or another.

As much as I didn’t really appreciate Dana’s appearance in GB2 because it seemed peculiarly bad luck for her character to be involved in yet another end-of-the-world scenario, I would have liked at least a small mention of Dana in RGB. Maybe a cameo in one or two episodes, or at least some acknowledgement of the whole Peter/Dana thing, seeing as it was supposed to be the primary love interest in the film. It would have been interesting to find out what happened between them, and whether they would have felt the same way about each other.

I do like the way 88MPH are tackling the Peter/Dana relationship. It seemed much more down-to-earth and realistic, and I loved the way they actually tackled the issue of Peter’s hectic lifestyle and Louis’s predatory behaviour and the effect it had on their relationship. They actually looked as though they suited each other, too.

[raysgal]

I just thought it always seemed logical that Peter and Dana should be together. Especially after I thought about if for a while unlike with Egon and Janine that just always seemed right because they reminded me of a lot of couples that I know.

Of course in the beginning, it was one of those typical cliche things you see all the time in movies where characters that probably shouldn't be together, yet end up together because of one reason or another like a saving the world kind of thing.

I'm not sure why Dana wasn't really in the cartoons, but I think if there were two sets of characters trying to work on relationships than there really wouldn't have been too much ghostbusting going around. The cartoons were done for children who probably would have switched off the TV if there was a bunch of kissing going around. Though I think now it would have possibly been a good idea if she had been around for a little bit. Dropping in every so often to serve as a reminder of sorts.

In the end though I don't really care. I think it was fine that Dana wasn't in the cartoons, but in retrospect she possibly should have been in a few or at least mentioned a bit more. As for being included in the second movie I guess that could have gone either way as well. If the second movie had been more like the original stuff Dan had written instead of the knock-off junk we did get than it might have worked out so much better in so many regards.

[Kingpin]

Before I got the Internet...and descended into a spiral of maddness known as Fanfiction from which I shall never return...it never even occured to me that it was odd that Dana was never shown in RGB... Peter's galabanting around and chasing the next date just seemed right...

But now, it does seem odd that she never appeared, even if they were to break up as shown in GBII, it would have made sense to have at least shown some sign of her...unless they were worried that having two female characters could hinder the role that was probably set for Janine, before it was butchered.

Of course, nowadays I can't really see anything other then the Venkman clan in the Omnibus Timeline universe, as Rosey's done such a good job with it.

I have no problems with people saying that maybe Peter should be with someone like Janine...but I wonder just how typical it was to find out a certain person (Who shall go nameless*) gave a positive review to a fic which had Peter and Janine getting married...

*Why is it we don't mention her name? We all know who it is.

Still, I agree that the Peter/Dana relationship portrayed in Legion has been a very interesting one, especially the hatred between Louis and Peter (Louis has money, but not the girl he wants, Peter has the girl he wants, but isn't exactly rich), and it has to be tearing Louis up inside.

And in relation to ghostly events following Dana:

How can the same sh*t happen to the same guy twice?

;D

[Fritz]

Kingpin said:

I have no problems with people saying that maybe Peter should be with someone like Janine...but I wonder just how typical it was to find out a certain person (Who shall go nameless*) gave a positive review to a fic which had Peter and Janine getting married...

I don't think she really cares all that much. It's just the usual: Janine+Some Guy Other Than Egon Means Egon+Clara Hamilton

*Why is it we don't mention her name? We all know who it is.

It's like how in the Lord of the Rings they have this fear of mentioning Sauron by name. It might attract the Dark Lord's attention.

How can the same sh*t happen to the same guy twice?

Brian Reilly once semicomedically theorized Dana is a "black hole for paranormal energy"...she's one of those people that Bad Stuff just sort of happens to.

[Silent Seraphim]

Kingpin said:

I have no problems with people saying that maybe Peter should be with someone like Janine...but I wonder just how typical it was to find out a certain person (Who shall go nameless*) gave a positive review to a fic which had Peter and Janine getting married...

That doesn’t surprise me. As Fritz already said, it basically means that by pairing Janine with someone else that the path is then free for their favourite character to become involved with their Mary Sue.

Although I can understand why Peter and Janine are paired up in fics, and although I’ve read a few nice fanfics with them together, I personally wouldn’t have wanted them to be together in any of the established shows/comics/films. It’s okay in fanfic, but I don’t think it would have worked at all in the show. Janine was Egon’s. Period. There is absolutely nothing in the show to suggest she had even the slightest hint of a romantic interest in Peter.

[EGBFan]

Ok, so Peter is my favourite OGB, but that’s entirely because of the cartoon: I watched that before either of the movies. (At one time, when I was quite little, I think GB2 was probably new, there was a promotion on the movie with cereal – my older brother was collecting the illustrations of scenes from the movie on the backs of the packets, and I just didn’t have a clue what they had to do with Ghostbusters, because I only knew RGB.) And, if it has to be anyone, I’m glad it should be Sigourney Weaver. I like her for various reasons – I won’t go into them though because you’re not interested.

The cartoon was fine without Dana if you keep it separate from the movies, which is ok with me – I watch either a movie or RGB to enjoy it and don’t worry too much about what’s been going on in the other (unless I need to for a story). Similarly I’m sure the cartoon wasn’t considered much, if at all, during the making of GB2, and either way I see no reason for Dana not to be in it.

However I also see no reason for her to have broken up with Peter and married The Stiff (and broken up with him too, just so she and Peter could go through the romantic storyline all over again), nor any reason why Oscar couldn’t be Peter’s baby – like, they could still have had the scene in the restaurant and it still would have been funny. But – it always comes back to fan fiction with me – the relationships in that family have been great to explore in my writing. I’ve got a lot of mileage out of it, and there’s plenty more where that came from. I even got to create a whole other London family for Oscar, which was fun, and they’re handy for developing the situation when I need something new to happen.

At the risk of blowing my own horn, Jessica Venkman has proved a popular character – I’m very happy with that particular creation. Some of the people around here (and the sister sites) seem to like her, and she seems liked at fanfiction.net – although actually all the fans there seem to want in GB kids is miniatures of their parents, which is kind of annoying. I mean obviously there are going to be some similarities, but that is so not the point of creating a new character! Had I better not go into that? Yeah, probably.

Ok, I’m done.

[Fritz]

although actually all the fans there seem to want in GB kids is miniatures of their parents, which is kind of annoying. I mean obviously there are going to be some similarities, but that is so not the point of creating a new character

Interesting point. Yeah, making a kid a clone of it's parent is understandable, but I like to think we've managed to avoid that trap here. The initial versions of the Spengler Twins and Eric Stantz were a lot closer to that--Eric looked like Ray with darker hair. Albert Spengler (John's thematic predecessor) was Egon with red hair. Marie (Eden) was essentially a blonde Janine with the Spengler tail.

And I think--or at least I like to think--we've managed to make them all different from their parents in their personalities. There are always similarities--Jessica's gift of gab, Eric's enthusiasm, the Twins' sheer brainpower--that recall their heritage, but they're also seperate and distinct characters in their own rights.

[ECTO-1]

I think it would've made more sense to have Dana in the toon, but being it was a kids show already pushing the adult themes, guess the producers felt romance would be uneeded. Hell, as a kid I thought girls were yuckie so I could get that logic. Plus, I doubt a sequel was immediately planned or expected, so not like they went in with the thought of "Oh, there MIGHT be a sequel so maybe we should have her in there."

As for after, they definitely should have. I liked how it was handled in the novel. Sure, it had it's flaws but the Peter/Dana stuff was great.

[Yami Mirai]

I'm so-so on the Peter/Dana relationship.

I do like them together in the context of the Omnibus Timeline. After reading fanfics featuring their family it just seems natural to me for them to be together, at least in the fanfic universe.

However, at the same time, if they weren't paired together in fics I really wouldn't care all that much.

I watched The Real Ghostbusters for years before I even saw either movie, so to me Venkman was always a womanizer. That's what I knew him as, so it was weird for me to watch the movies and see him wanting to be with just one woman.

While Dana is a good choice for him, I still have that notion from my childhood planted in my brain.

So overall, while I do consider them a nice couple (thanks to the Omnibus Timeline and the fiction present in it) part of my mind still sees him as the womanizer from the cartoon, so it's hard for me to see them as a great couple instead of just a good couple.

...Okay, I'm going to stop rambling now.

[ECTO-1]

Egon and Janine never fully got together in the cartoon either.

Same rules apply?

[Yami Mirai]

ecto1 said:

Egon and Janine never fully got together in the cartoon either.

Same rules apply?

You're treading on dangerous ground here buddy.

At least in the cartoon it's obvious that there's a connection between those two, even if Egon is a little too dense to realize that until it's almost too late.

Dana, however, is not in the cartoon, so the only time their relationship is shown is in the two movies, neither of which has her and Peter's relationship go any farther than just dating.
If it had, however, progressed beyond that (say Peter popping the big question), then I'd probably be more interested in the couple than I am now.

The cartoon shows many years of Egon and Janine chemistry, while the two movies only show a few hours of Peter and Dana chemistry, so it's much easier for me to accept the first pairing as indisputable fact than it is for me to accept the second pairing.

[ECTO-1]

In other words you dug yourself a hole and can't admit it. ;-)