Question About RGB Slash

[SuperStantzio]

Hey what does everyone think of RGB slash fanfics? Because I read some of it and personally I find them kind of gross because I don't think the guys would be in any homosexual relationships. And it's mostly Peter/Egon they write about hardly Ray/Winston at all. But still, I don't feel comfortable with that idea.

[Fritz]

Not my cup of tea either. I have nothing against gay characters in principle, but there's just too much canon that says "Hello, they're not gay, sorry."

Venkman: Are you paying attention? Dana Barrett? All those women he chases around in the cartoons?

Ray: Depending on your interpretation of the canon, either has intimate relations with a female-looking ghost, or even more tellingly, has dreams about intimate relations with a female ghost. And in "Look Homeward, Ray", it was Elaine Fuhrman he had a crush on, not Alan Favish.

Egon: Two words: Janine Melnitz

Winston: Sorry, has a girlfriend off-camera mentioned in various episodes, and seen in one issue of the Now comic.

Louis: Lusted after Dana Barrett in GB1. Has fling with the doped-up slut posing as Janine in GB2. Niether are men.

Original characters who are gay? I don't want to read anything explicit about it, but as long as you're not abusing a canon character's backstory to do it, I got no problem.

[SuperStantzio]

I agree with that. Because I really just can't see most that happening. With OG characters that's okay. When I used read some of them, I find who wrote the stories make the regular character way off and I don't believe they won't do any kind stuff. That really turned me off right there. That's why after that, I backed away from RGB slash all together.

[EGBFan]

admin said:

Venkman: Are you paying attention? Dana Barrett? All those women he chases around in the cartoons?

Ray: Depending on your interpretation of the canon, either has intimate relations with a female-looking ghost, or even more tellingly, has dreams about intimate relations with a female ghost. And in "Look Homeward, Ray", it was Elaine Fuhrman he had a crush on, not Alan Favish.

Egon: Two words: Janine Melnitz

Winston: Sorry, has a girlfriend off-camera mentioned in various episodes, and seen in one issue of the Now comic.

Louis: Lusted after Dana Barrett in GB1. Has fling with the doped-up slut posing as Janine in GB2. Niether are men.

Janine: Egon... and Louis, when she thought that was going nowhere, reluctant as I am to mention it.

(To expand the topic:)

Kylie: Eduardo, and some crushes that mean nothing and don't last: Egon, Ray, Leonard Bates.

I've never come across a Ghostbusters fanfiction in which the female characters are portrayed as homosexual - but I feel that they deserve a mention. Women are sexual creatures too.

Eduardo: Kylie, Wanda, Bess, Lillith, the ghost of a very irritating French maid in an unnecessarily short skirt, the biker girl in the poster on his wall, but most importantly Kylie.

Garrett: Also Lillith. Occasionally chats up women, has an annoying habit of assuming that men and women can't mix without fancying each other. A closet gay attempting to cover up his insecurities? Well, after Persephonethius the mole person, let's say not.

Roland: Seems fairly asexual, a lot of the time. Syren hardly counts; she was bewitching pretty much everyone. Is reluctant to chat up women in "Dog Days", but it's made very clear that he's nervous rather than uninterested. I guess somebody could build an argument for Roland being gay, but he's so boring that nobody wants to.

[Fritz]

I've never come across a Ghostbusters fanfiction in which the female characters are portrayed as homosexual - but I feel that they deserve a mention. Women are sexual creatures too.

Well, I haven't either, and that's the only reason I didn't mention it. I certainly thought about it, though.

Heck, while we're at it, we missed one:

Dana Barrett: Is the only character who has actually procreated in canon. Andre Wallance and Peter Venkman--not women.

[SuperStantzio]

admin said:

I've never come across a Ghostbusters fanfiction in which the female characters are portrayed as homosexual - but I feel that they deserve a mention. Women are sexual creatures too.

Well, I haven't either, and that's the only reason I didn't mention it. I certainly thought about it, though.

Heck, while we're at it, we missed one:

Dana Barrett: Is the only character who has actually procreated in canon. Andre Wallance and Peter Venkman--not women.

Yeah, me too. I didn't want to mention or think about that either. In the ghostbusters universe I don't think the female characters are protrayed are homosexual I just cannot see that.

[Silent Seraphim]

I think it's pretty obvious that slash deviates wildly from canon. That's pretty much a given.

However, I think I'm probably the only one here who will readily admit to having read slash fic and enjoyed some of it. Robyn Thurman (now a published writer) wrote some great GB slash stories. I've read some wonderful college fiction, which also just happened to be slash, and they would have easily fitted into canon if it weren't for the fact that Egon and Peter were in a relationship with each other. Just because it manipulates canon to an extreme, it doesn't mean that the stories themselves aren't engaging or well-written, with good characterisation.

The way I look at them, they are independent of canon, and independent of everything we already know about these guys, but a valid piece of work all the same. It might seem strange to some people, but to me it really doesn't affect how I feel about Egon and Janine, or any other canon-pairing. Maybe I can separate it more easily from canon stories, but my personal love of the Egon/Janine pairing isn't affected at all by reading a story where Egon is paired up with Peter, if it's written well. To me, it seems a different thing entirely. Like a sub-set of what is real in the GB world. I think it helps if Janine isn't in the story at all, because I don't like the idea of an Egon/Peter vs. Janine thing, which tends to happen sometimes in these types of stories. I appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea, but personally I don't find the idea of two of the guys (or women - although I've not personally read any female GB slash) finding comfort with one another squicky, especially if they are extremely close.

That's not saying that they are all good, though. Some slash is... well, the less said the better. I'm not fond of the explicit stuff at all, and the worst slash stories I've ever read is when all four of them become one big, happy gay family together. I mean, you've got to be kidding me! And when Janine happily accepts all of it, well I really, really don't think so.

[SuperStantzio]

lurker said:

I think it's pretty obvious that slash deviates wildly from canon. That's pretty much a given.

However, I think I'm probably the only one here who will readily admit to having read slash fic and enjoyed some of it. Robyn Thurman (now a published writer) wrote some great GB slash stories. I've read some wonderful college fiction, which also just happened to be slash, and they would have easily fitted into canon if it weren't for the fact that Egon and Peter were in a relationship with each other. Just because it manipulates canon to an extreme, it doesn't mean that the stories themselves aren't engaging or well-written, with good characterisation.

The way I look at them, they are independent of canon, and independent of everything we already know about these guys, but a valid piece of work all the same. It might seem strange to some people, but to me it really doesn't affect how I feel about Egon and Janine, or any other canon-pairing. Maybe I can separate it more easily from canon stories, but my personal love of the Egon/Janine pairing isn't affected at all by reading a story where Egon is paired up with Peter, if it's written well. To me, it seems a different thing entirely. Like a sub-set of what is real in the GB world. I think it helps if Janine isn't in the story at all, because I don't like the idea of an Egon/Peter vs. Janine thing, which tends to happen sometimes in these types of stories. I appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea, but personally I don't find the idea of two of the guys (or women - although I've not personally read any female GB slash) finding comfort with one another squicky, especially if they are extremely close.

That's not saying that they are all good, though. Some slash is... well, the less said the better. I'm not fond of the explicit stuff at all, and the worst slash stories I've ever read is when all four of them become one big, happy gay family together. I mean, you've got to be kidding me! And when Janine happily accepts all of it, well I really, really don't think so.

I know that's so true. Some slash stories are good. But others some of them are written horribly and I'm also not into the really nasty stuff. And with the Peter/Egon paring in some of those stories if Janine is in the stories, I know a couple of writers who wrote them paired her with Ray for some reason.

[Mick Nielson]

With Ray? That doesnt even make any sense. Now, I could see if (in some warped world) She ended up with Peter, because their little back-and-forth thing COULD be translated to something like school-yard crushes that you tease to get their attention. However, I personally am not blind and Egon and Janine make the most sense, even when you JUST look at the Canon reasons.

I'm surprised nobody has tried to accuse several non-cannon characters of being gay. There's enough hate flying around GBI for someone to just get fed up and go "Ya know what, YOUR GAY!" to someone. Personally I'd like to put it out there just in case, that nobody in my team is homosexual (I would know, I created them all).

[Jason Knetge]

Roland did say he wonted kids a hole lot of them
( Till Death Makes Us Start )

Ray: Depending on your interpretation of the canon, either has intimate relations with a female-looking ghost, or even more tellingly, has dreams about intimate relations with a female ghost. And in "Look Homeward, Ray", it was Elaine Fuhrman he had a crush on, not Alan Favish.

Egon: Two words: Janine Melnitz

.

with the bout lag DVD fresh in my mind I know-test that people forget that all the guy's would get excited wen thy sow a pretty girl .
it's just Venkman that would continue to pursue when the other would know when to stop .

Egon and Winston perked up at the sit of Ray's cousin

Louis has fling with the doped-up slut posing as Janine in GB2. Niether are men..

( I can't find the thread were you guy's said she was on drug )

I don't like that idea that she was doped-up.
I say they were drunk . I mean it was new years and people do drink a lot on the night .

[Fritz]

Janine being drugged out in GB2 is not an "official" concept--it's just an observation Ogre and I came up with a couple years ago when rewatching GB2 right after GB1. She really did seems to talk slower and except for her response when she found out Venkman was arrested ("Typical", which Al dubbed "Her only in-character line in the whole movie") had none of her usual spit and vinegar. It was like Annie was just phoning it in; maybe she was going, like the rest of us, "what the f*** did you do to this character in this script?"

I think it was somewhere in the middle of the big Egon/Janine thread in the Animation forum where that came up.

[SuperStantzio]

tampabuster1 said:

With Ray? That doesnt even make any sense. Now, I could see if (in some warped world) She ended up with Peter, because their little back-and-forth thing COULD be translated to something like school-yard crushes that you tease to get their attention. However, I personally am not blind and Egon and Janine make the most sense, even when you JUST look at the Canon reasons.

I'm surprised nobody has tried to accuse several non-cannon characters of being gay. There's enough hate flying around GBI for someone to just get fed up and go "Ya know what, YOUR GAY!" to someone. Personally I'd like to put it out there just in case, that nobody in my team is homosexual (I would know, I created them all).

I know that's true. I did read a couple of slash fics and they did have Ray/Janine together and I really don't see that happening since most people don't like that pairing. I also agree in a AU that Peter/Janine would go togethere.

[Dr. Vincent Belmont]

egbfan said:

Kylie: Eduardo, and some crushes that mean nothing and don't last: Egon, Ray, Leonard Bates.

Oy. Let's not forget Vincent Belmont in "Hearts in Eclipse"...

www.ectozone.com/ff/xgbhe1.html

Eduardo's said:

Eduardo tried not to fill with bile at the thought of Vincent and Kylie looking over the books together

"Oh, Vincent, the way you heft those ancient tomes makes me so hot..."

"Kylie, I must say that, like these books, you are nicely stacked..."

He shook his head angrily. Oh, c'mon, now I'm makin' stuff up...

Best. Scene. Ever.

Laughed my ass off.



Anyhoo. I HATE slash fics.

I have my own views on homosexuality, which I will not share in good company. However, I do not begrudge anyone who has chosen that lifestyle for themselves.

The RGBs, however, are NOT some of those people. It's PAINFULLY obvious. It's canonically disproven. I don't care about "artistic interpretation." That has nothing to do with it. You can't just change someone's essential nature just because.

I think "slash" got its name fropm the fact that it "slashes" good fandoms to ribbons.

[EGBFan]

drvincentbelmont said:

Oy. Let's not forget Vincent Belmont in "Hearts in Eclipse"...

Yes, well, that's hardly canon. (Or is it cannon? I can never remember, but I'm sure I will if somebody just tells me. I should know - it's a crucial word to a literature student, but anyway - ) I happen to think a lot of that was down to paranoia on Eduardo's part. Watching the series as often as I have, it seems to me that Kylie's crushes stem from more than just the guy having a brain in his head. She really seems to admire life experience, most obviously. Heck, you could argue that she only wants a father figure - they're all old enough to be her father.

Anyway, moving on - my personal opinion, that I'm not asking anybody to agree with, is that breaking can(n)on needn't be such a heinous crime. Not very many slash authors are actually saying, "This is something that these characters would do" - and if they are, then of course they lose my sympathy. I agree with Silent Seraphim, in that slash stories can be independent from everything else that's ever been done with these characters, although I don't agree with the point about artistic interpretation. Slash really is just... y'know... changing stuff.

I don't disapprove because I believe absolutely and fundamentally in freedom of speech. Slash stories always carry warnings, so anyone who doesn't want to read them has no excuse for doing so.

(There's a voice in my head asking me to stress that I can only ever remember reading one RGB slash story, and it was pretty bad. I read it for laughs. Slash isn't my cup of tea either, which is why I generally don't read it. I just don't disapprove - a bit like how I'm not gay myself but I entirely approve of homosexuality.)

I have a strange feeling that not very many people are going to agree with me on the point I'm about to make - some might even think I'm speaking out of turn. But it's something that's occurred to me more than once, and I think it's time I let a few people know.

People have written stories pairing Kylie and Roland, and people have written stories with other male/female pairings from other shows that if I mention them no one will know what I'm talking about - and they can usually come up with some kind of evidence that it could happen. The way I see it, that's not so different from pairing Egon and Peter. Please don't overreact - I realise there's the separate issue of They're not gay!! - but on the other hand, is it so different? I once read somebody being quoted as saying, "I love the person, not the body." If someone writes a story in which two very close friends of the same sex become lovers, there's an uproar. If it's two very close friends of the opposite sex, for the most part, there's usually no problem. Too many people subscribe to the view that men and women can't be just friends. It just bothers me is all.

Just a thought. I'll shut up now.

[Kingpin]

egbfan said:

I've never come across a Ghostbusters fanfiction in which the female characters are portrayed as homosexual - but I feel that they deserve a mention. Women are sexual creatures too.

Nope, but the fans are there... there was this one member, Jackalman (some may remember he berated Iain because Jackalman respected Saddam Hussain and Iain portrayed him as the dictator the man was) who voiced too much of a fondness for a relationship between the Ghostbusters ladies... I present this little gem, par exmple:

Like your story but, not the pairings. I can't see Egon taking up with Janine or anyone, nor anyone EVER taking up with Eduardo. But, it's a good read.

- From his review of Rosey's Death Row.

As well as this:

I liked the other TV series with Egon, Kylie, Roland, Mr. Garrit and that crew better than the show with these characters.

- From his review of As Dreams Fade with the original Ghostbusters.

Obviously not a fan of the established material on anything. But the most unsettling thing is that apprently Jackalman (contrary to the name) is actually a mother.

My dislike for the style of 'RGB Slash' is strong... to the point where I got into an argument at Fanfic.net which got a story removed... It just at times the flagrant disregard for the established stuff the authors seem to display at times... I have no problems with gay characters but making Egon and Peter have a relationship, and have nookie in Ecto-1 after a bust?

It kinda turns you off from what might have been an otherwise good story.

And when Janine happily accepts all of it, well I really, really don't think so.

I'm reminded of Fritz's infamous "Mary Sue" story where he sits off in the corner, and eventually realises he's in the story, Seraphim.

The RGBs, however, are NOT some of those people. It's PAINFULLY obvious. It's canonically disproven. I don't care about "artistic interpretation." That has nothing to do with it. You can't just change someone's essential nature just because.

I think "slash" got its name fropm the fact that it "slashes" good fandoms to ribbons.

I dislike it when people try justify it as an 'artistic licence' or as you put it, 'artistic interpretation' Vince. More often then not it's a lazy excuse for being able to write a personal perversion or just want to write some sex (not that all slash authors do this... but it's not hard to imagine).

And of course, the 'official' reason for the term 'slash' was for the 'slash' between character names often seen in the description: "Peter/Egon XXX fun m-hey!"

I also get creeped out by fics pairing Egon with Kylie... she's got a crush on him, not a romantic relationship... She may be legal but people would frown on a 40 year old shut-in physicist (at the time) dating his 18 year old student.

Too many people subscribe to the view that men and women can't be just friends. It just bothers me is all.

My brother would agree with you... he's disheartened at the number of times women think he's trying to chat them up when in fact he's just being a good listener.