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Post by Fritz on Mar 7, 2006 17:34:43 GMT -4
Heh...she rants and raves about "Canon Nazis"...why, if this "Duranfan4life" was someone I had to deal with or something, I'd probably never take her seriously again. Canon Nazi that I am, I don't have quite as many problems with fan created love interests for Ray and Venkman. As I've explained before, Ray only had one canon love interest, she appeared early, and wasn't officially heard of ever again. And Venkman was always On The Prowl. That's not me saying the story doesn't blow, mind you.
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Post by SuperStantzio on Mar 7, 2006 17:38:39 GMT -4
That's true Fritz, I almost did create a love interest for Ray but It didn't work out and I did more Ray/Elaine pairing. So when I ahead and did it. And I'm happy with how it came out for me. Because I don't want to have any characters turning into a mary sue.
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Mar 7, 2006 17:58:18 GMT -4
It’s not so much the fact that a new character is involved with one of the guys which really bothers me. I'd read a good, well-structured GB/OC love story any day. Heck, I've even read some Egon/OC stories (one by Sheila Paulson and one by Cindy Rancourt) before without having the urge to pick up a shovel and beat the author to death with it.
The thing that really bothers me, is when the ghostbuster/s involved are just so obviously taken by this ‘wonderful’, new person who joins up for no other reason than to be a love interest. There is no other plot in this story, except ‘Mary-Sue joins the Ghostbusters’. That’s all there is.
And yes, I admit it. I’m a Canon Nazi, too! Ve have vays of making your Mary-Sue disappear! You vill not write Mary-Sues vizout ze proper papers! Ya Vohl, Mein Fanfiction Fuhrer! ;D
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Post by SuperStantzio on Mar 7, 2006 18:01:39 GMT -4
Yes, I too also a Canon Nazi as well. The Ghostbuster/Oc stories are okay but some of them are just to plain mary sue. I really cannot stand rading some of them. And no plots at all just that MS joining the ghostbusters. That's why I write canon and will stick to it.
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Post by Kingpin on Mar 13, 2006 11:08:26 GMT -4
And yes, I admit it. I’m a Canon Nazi, too! Ve have vays of making your Mary-Sue disappear! You vill not write Mary-Sues vizout ze proper papers! Ya Vohl, Mein Fanfiction Fuhrer! ;D ROFL! The review I gave at fanfic.net: You guys have summed it up, it's a piece of trash written to give a Mary Sue a love interest and lacks any decent understanding of the world it's set in. The instant hiring and going into the firing line, and then instantanious change to four weeks later shows a sheer lack of plot or thought. Definately a stinker. I was seriously considering calling out Sarah on that... it's incredibly hypacritical to make that huge complaint months ago about the non hidden talks here and then accuse us of being Canon Nazis behind her back... but what'd be the point? It's just easier this way to just leave her to her devices. I wish she wouldn't use the review section to air her dirty laundry, it's twice now she's complained of powers that be of having some conspiracy against her. If it weren't obvious, that 'alternate reality' comment is a reference to her story with a AU Egon talking to 'our' universe Egon, warning him of the danger of marrying Janine. (She becomes controling and obsessive, it seems) Canon Nazi and proud, standards have to be maintained and maintained for a reason.
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Post by SuperStantzio on Mar 13, 2006 14:04:53 GMT -4
I agree with you on all of that, Kingpin. Because when I first read the story, I thought that they guys would never hire a female and besides erica didn't have that much traning either and She sounded way too prefect and I don't think Peter would be a cheater he just like to date alot. So that story was off character and I stopped reading it half way. I really didn't like the story at all.
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Post by Fritz on Mar 13, 2006 20:02:22 GMT -4
And yes, I admit it. I’m a Canon Nazi, too! Ve have vays of making your Mary-Sue disappear! You vill not write Mary-Sues vizout ze proper papers! Ya Vohl, Mein Fanfiction Fuhrer! ;D ROFL! Remember Godwin's Law of Internet Debate: the first one to bring Hitler or Nazi's into it loses. And WE weren't the ones who brought Nazis into it. Er, does that make me some kind of Canon Fuhrer then?
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Post by Kingpin on Mar 13, 2006 20:21:08 GMT -4
The appropriate and non insulting term would probably be 'Chancellor', Hitler was chancellor of Germany before he became dictator, so you're the Chancellor of Fanfiction, Fritz. Hail!
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Mar 13, 2006 21:22:33 GMT -4
The appropriate and non insulting term would probably be 'Chancellor', Hitler was chancellor of Germany before he became dictator, so you're the Chancellor of Fanfiction, Fritz. Actually, I think the point was that she was trying to use an insulting term. According to her, Fritz probably would be the Fuhrer and we would be his SS minions. She thinks we are dictatorial. I think it’s her nice, warm and cuddly way of saying she hates us all. Zeig Heil! Fanfiction Canon Nazis Rule! ;D
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BlackMaria
Doberman
Jersey Devil
Sharpening the Fence Posts
Posts: 126
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Post by BlackMaria on Mar 14, 2006 13:20:00 GMT -4
So, it's a case of "Do as I say, not as I've done."
To the rigid thinkers: Don't bash the Canon-pushers. Without them, there would be no Canon-Deviators, Alternate Universes, etc, from which to base your stories. It's not logical, Captain. It's an example of the chicken or the egg scenario.
I can be somehwat flexible in the Canon department. Most shows have done a "what-if" scenario/alternate universe, & most have worked out well.
To oversensitive paranoid people: we aren't ganging up on you/your group/your choices. Some people simply share different views from others. People will disagree with you & discuss you/your choices without involving you. It's gonna happen & the healthy attitude is to peacefully accept it. There are many things you can't control in this world; better to go with the flow of the tide than try to swim against the current (which isn't to say you can't do your own thing).
Back to my "Mirror, Mirror" universe.
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Mar 14, 2006 14:48:44 GMT -4
I can be somehwat flexible in the Canon department. Most shows have done a "what-if" scenario/alternate universe, & most have worked out well. I’ve read some wonderful stories which deviate from canon, and I have never demanded that everything should be kept exactly as RGB/GB canon dictates, but the really funny thing about all this is that the person who has given us this 'Canon Nazi' label is referring not necessarily to people who are obsessed with keeping to canon, but instead to anyone who has dared to criticise her stories for being Mary-Sue. More specifically, she has a problem with E/J shippers because her original character is paired up with Egon. All the really good original characters I’ve read have flaws, aren’t perfect, don’t get congratulated and accepted into the Ghostbusters as one of their own, and remain pretty much background material or as secondary/tertiary characters. All the Mary-Sues I’ve read are never less than perfect, take to the role of Ghostbusting as though it was second nature to them, are easily accepted as ‘one of the guys’, and are so involved in the story that they inevitably become the main character. This has got nothing to do with canon, but everything to do with good writing, characterisation and plotting. She can call us Canon Nazis if she wants, but all it really demonstrates is that she doesn't know what she is talking about when it comes to writing Fanfiction.
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Post by SuperStantzio on Mar 14, 2006 14:57:54 GMT -4
Yeah I also agree with that too. She should show some respect to the fans who enjoy the E/J paring. The complaning and whining that she is doing needs to stop.
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Post by Fritz on Mar 14, 2006 17:51:54 GMT -4
Er, I know that One Particular Name comes up when it comes to bad fanfiction, but let's keep it from being another Bash She Who Will Not Be Named thread.
In general...
You want to start breaking the rules? Know the rules first. And be consistant about it.
You want to say "Well, my story takes place in a world where only the movies are canon so Egon doesn't get together with Janine" you have that right. Go ahead. But stick with that--one fic I read had a story with the Ghostbusters in business in the middle of 1988. Hello? You want to be a Movie Purist the Ghostbusters were shut down from 1984-1989. You want to follow the GBOT, they were shut down from mid 1986-late1998. You want them active in 1988? All of a sudden you're in "RGB purist" territory...
And when you go into that territory, you've also got things like "Ragnarok and Roll", "Rollerghoster", Egon's throwing a fit in "Robo Buster", and "Janine You've Changed" to deal with.
Is it impossible to write a good story where Egon gets together with an original character? No. I haven't read one yet, mind you, but here's a few guidelines that could make it workable:
--Egon isn't going to notice ANYONE immediately. He's certainly not going to be turned into a steaming cauldron of hormones five minutes after meeting someone unless she's a frickin' succubus with the most powerful lust charms imaginable. And if you want to get Egon together with someone like THAT you have real problems.
--Put the work into it. You're talking about winning Egon, you're talking about a project that takes YEARS. In the RGB and GBOT canons, he loves Janine. And it takes years for him to even admit that out loud.
--And certainly don't forget the canon. Even in this conjectural Movie Only scenario, she did love Egon once upon a time--that's in the first movie. A story where she at least is tortured with pangs of jealousy is going to be a lot more convincing than one where she yawns it off.
This isn't trying to stifle creativity. This isn't trying to be a "Nazi" This is trying to be true to the characters as they've been presented. You start going away from that, you're not dealing with the characters we know and love anymore.
That's the point.
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Post by Kingpin on Mar 15, 2006 6:03:10 GMT -4
Relationships:
Peter Venkman: He chases skirts. Yes, maybe he sleeps around, but his friendship with Egon is strictly a brotherly bond, they are not a dating couple, we don't need the Ghostbusters equivilent of Brokeback Mountain.
Egon Spengler: SEE ABOVE.
Ray Stantz: Had a crush in High School and if you're following canon, then he's shy buit isn't completely alien to romance.
Winston Zeddemore: If you're following canon, he has an offscreen girlfriend.
Janine Melnitz: Don't even make me draw a diagaram.
Don't change an orientation of a character just because 'you're the writer', it makes you sound pretentious and that you don't give a hoot about the basic core material. Also keep in mind these are cartoon characters, they are close to the hearts of many and some people will not be able to accept a big character change.
Don't hide behind 'artistic' licence, justify the idea and if it's well laid out then people might be willing to accept it.
A review of any Z list fiction will follow as soon as I read any more.
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Jason Knetge
Doberman
The Data Says He Will Kick Your Ass
Posts: 115
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Post by Jason Knetge on Nov 27, 2006 20:06:45 GMT -4
If I ever made a Mary Sue or Gary Stu story with my character out doing the RGB at the end It would have me waking up from a dream .
All thoe I do have one story for my character that I hope can be can-in all I will say is it inspired by the episode Venk-man
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