Post by SuperStantzio on Nov 29, 2005 14:14:51 GMT -4
Yes I also agree. What about the stories She-who-must-be-named wrote with her character? She has those posted up at ff.net and she didn't want anyone flaming her Mary-Sue character Clara Hamliton. I think she did that so no one would flame for it.
"Bart Bucks" are not legal tender. Goldfish don't bounce. I will not mess with the opening credits.
Post by Silent Seraphim on Nov 29, 2005 14:53:02 GMT -4
I think she did that so no one would flame for it.
Yes, but as I recall, she wasn’t getting flamed for it. Her work was getting critical reviews, that’s all.
In fact, I recall her flaming Fritz’s work in the past, and she certainly left a less than flattering review for Ami Ree’s E/J fic ‘The Morning After’ on FF.net, so I think it's quite hypocritical of her to complain about flames when she has flamed plenty of other authors herself.
Post by SuperStantzio on Nov 29, 2005 15:24:11 GMT -4
I know and She had no right to do that. That was really rude of her. Because at least I do not go around flaming folks on their stories I leave them postive reviews and suggestions on what they need to improve. I really wished that she would give out advice instead of flaming. I'm very nice to her but seroiusly she needs to get a life and stop flaming authors.
Here's why: I think it's perfectly ok for writers and artists to explore any ideas they find interesting.
Mind you, I'd argue 'interesting idea' over 'blatent disregard for established fact'.
It's why I have such a hard time with slash writers these days... one person who I (Through the argument got booted off ff.net) had an argument with wouldn't even consider the fact that some people'd get upset. I realise now I was a little heavy handed... but being a writer doesn't automatically garentee you to do 'whatever you want', especially if you don't want to alienate the readers.
While the thread's been going well so far (And as ironic it is for me to say it), do keep an eye on the commens on she who shall not be named, she's a a collective pain in the butt... but she *mutter* has a right to be there.
Though, just to add a thought to the flaming remark, she did take extreme exception (And probably extreme predjudice) two Christmasses back... you guys know what I'm referencing.
I think... a lot of people would give a collective sigh if she'd just accept it, she's got the hots for Egon and sees Janine (Unfairly) as a rival.
Hmm, the comments were removed from her stories... but she has a lengthy rant about people with 'multiple personality disorders' and 'not knowing what they're talking about'. Hrmm.
"DuranDuranfan4life is ALWAYS RIGHT". Quite.
I'll be frank. The premise itself is interesting (alternate worlds and what not, it can be fun to say, what if Micheal Draverhaven never went mad, or Ray was more grown up, or as one person suggested, the company was set up in the 1930s then it's interesting and amusing to see the alternate views).
A problem though... I'm sorry to say is with the Clara business. The 'alternate' Egon suggests that Janine might 'become controlling' despite the fact it's an alternate universe. The story might not seem so... so (for the lack of a better term, Mary Sue like) if it were mentioned that "While I cannot be certain, but she might become controlling) because it's always possible that in the 'first universe', Janine turns out to be normal. After all, in an alternate universe, Clare could becom controlling.
Keep in mind, whatever might happen to an established character in our universe can also happen to a fan created one in an alternate universe.
Otherwise, an interesting story.
Wonder how long that'll remain before she gets it removed.
Post by Miss Janine on Nov 30, 2005 9:07:56 GMT -4
Now I know who we're talking about...Does the Mary Sue problem pop up in every fanfic genre?
And Kingpin: I don't think I was here two Christmases ago. What are you talking about? pm me if you don't want to answer in a post.
And I think the problem I have with MSs is when the author (and it could be anyone) refuses to admit that they're going against established canon, whether official or fan-consensus (example of that- it's official that Peter's dad is a conman, but fan consensus that he's named Charlie). I'd be cool with it if it went like "Well, I know Egon and Janine are considered a couple, but just for my story's sake, they're not." But then you get into OOC stuff and it just gets messy. While I will occassionally read those kind of stories, they're just not my can of Pepsi (cup of tea?).
Is it just me, or isn't calling her "she who must not be named" elevating her above her status? We're likening her to Voldemort. Yes, ok, I'm obsessed with Harry Potter. But still, she seems to crop up a lot here. You all wanna stop caring about what she thinks, says, and does. It totally doesn't matter.
I can't possibly remember as far back as two Christmases ago. What are you on about, Ben? And this time I am not going to argue with you - I can't be bothered.
I got my ass flamed off. She complained about Janine's nightgown being too short, and I told her that I didn't think that in her own bed with her own husband she'd dress like a frickin' Eskimo.
I also got a ton of grief for her for "Zodiac Imperative part 3" She and her chronically old-thread bumping friend with an "attitute problem" actually had the gall to accuse me of writing porn. Which is awfully funny, all things considered...
...I mean, she definitely knows what porn really looks like...
Post by Silent Seraphim on Nov 30, 2005 14:53:59 GMT -4
Does the Mary Sue problem pop up in every fanfic genre?
Pretty much. Anything with a male lead will attract the attention of fangirls who want to pair their Mary-Sue up with them. Harry Potter is full of fangirl Mary-Sues - inevitably it’s a beautiful newcomer to Hogwarts with extra special! powers who Harry falls madly in love with almost immediately. I’ve also come across a few Trigun Mary-Sues, Doctor Who Mary-Sues, Highlander Mary-Sues, there are plenty of Lord of the Rings Mary-Sues, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer Mary-Sues, I know there are Star Trek Mary-Sues, and there also seems to be a few Power Rangers Mary-Sues, as well…
I'd be cool with it if it went like "Well, I know Egon and Janine are considered a couple, but just for my story's sake, they're not."
Me, too. I’ve read perfectly good stories where Egon and Janine have either broken up, or have decided that they should go their separate ways. The problem comes when an original character comes in from nowhere, who is amazingly talented, saves the lives of the other established characters (making them look either incompetent or useless), and predictably ensures that one of the lead characters instantaneously falls madly in love with them which irritates no end.
Post by Miss Janine on Nov 30, 2005 15:12:14 GMT -4
I know. I read one once (wish I could remember the title) where Egon practically screamed at the author that he was in love with Janine, and had no interest in anyone else, but the writer still paired him off with *shudder* Peter. Ray was reading to his stuffed animals, Janine was on the phone, and who knew where Winston was. The whole thing was hilarious!
Thanks to Yami Mirai for graciously letting me swipe her sig!
I finally got to meet Weird Al! Truly a classy guy- and he's really hot, too...
I can't find the link to this brilliant article about Star Wars Mary Sues, so I guess I'll just post it here:
how to write a mary sue fic in 7 easy steps note: don't know what a mary sue is? i'm too lazy to explain it. go here. don't know what fanfic is? i give up. go read something else.
so. you're a female star wars geek and you want to write some fanfic. but not good fanfic. not witty, smart fanfic like this. you want to write some total crap.
you want to write a mary sue story.
but you're lacking something. inspiration? skill? creativity? (actually, no self-respecting mary sue author has either of the last two, but whatever.) well, get out your lisa frank notebook and a pen, cause i'm here to hook you up. behold, the mary sue story generator, v1.0!
step one: the name i know what you're saying... "but sara... shouldn't the plot come first?" no, silly! the plot is always the weakest and least-considered part of any mary sue story! infact, the mary sue is the only element of the story that's developed at all! your mary sue needs a name, of course. but what? there are generally three methods to naming your sith-squainking alter ego:
take any two (or three) of the following names: cassandra, lily, larissa, selena, serena, rhiannon, brianna. mix and match as desired. lilandra? aww, yeah. serissa? oh, yes. rhianna? totally. make your own name sound star wars-y. lisa=li-sah, becky=beh-kae, jennifer=jae-nau fyrr, leia= ...oh. oops. make up a completely idiotic, vaguely sw-ish name from scratch. kiazaru gonn-marr? perfect! bonus points for using a ' (c'sandra!) step two: physical characteristics now that you've got a really stupid, unpronounceable name for your mary sue, you'll want to figure out what she looks like. there are a few things every mary sue must have. she'll need giant gravity defying breasts to push at her modest tunic, fiery red hair, and eyes of either green or violet. regarding height, she should either be a well-muscled, yet still hourglass-shaped, amazon, or a mere waif whose small stature belies her true ability to kick ass. mary sue represent!
step three: glamourous line of work at this point, i'm going to have to break some pretty troubling news to you: it seems many industries are still not open to mary sues! damn that glass ceiling! at least, i think this must be the case, as all mary sues tend to be either a) jedi knights, b) bounty hunters, c) pilots or d) in the foodservice industry. occasionally they do branch out into other fields-- tattoo artists and mechanics, for example-- but for the most part, no. of course, your mary sue can always be one of the leisure classes-- a pampered princess who comes to a new understanding of the way things really are through the teachings of a virile jedi/sith/rebel.
step four: force abilities note that i didn't say force sensitivity. all mary sues have a natural aptitude for the force that makes anakin skywalker look like a midichlorian-deprived pansy. basically, there are only two things you need to ask yourself, force-wise. first of all, is your mary sue on the light side or the dark side? or is she not affiliated with either side, but a dashingly amoral free agent and/or too damn deep to mess with these "light" and "dark" labels? secondly, how much training has she had? people tend to go to one extreme or another here. either mary sue is a super-skilled jedi knight with years at the academy under her belt (the better to heal khameir with!), or she's a complete novice. in the latter case, be sure to fit in plenty of scenes in which mary sue and luke/obi-wan/qui-gon/whoever fall into each other arms mid-training session.
step five: who should she shag? because we all know that she will shag someone at some point in the story. the most popular options:
luke-- i don't know why anyone would want him, either, but i've always been told i have no taste in farmboys. if mary sue hooks up with luke, he should spout incredibly deep jedi-ish things every moment he's not screaming "yes! yes! yes!" and of course, no luke fic would be complete without mention of his "manly arms". darth maul-- there are two maulfic options. either there can be an incredibly tasteless rape scene (with or without sidious in the background going, "do you like your reward, my apprentice?") or mary sue can save maul from the theed generator and turn him back to all that is right and good. if you choose the latter scenario, don't forget to have mary sue call him "khameir". bonus points if she just knows this is his real name without him telling her. obi-wan-- he's innocent! he's trembling! but he's still incredibly studly and forceful! qui-gon-- mary sue's innocent and trembling. qui-gon is still incredibly forceful. step six: sex! "he put his sex in her sex and they had sex!" --sarah's parody of a mary sue sex scene the sex scene, better known as "the whole entire reason the damn fic was even written", is very important. it should always be awkward and incredibly squickful. if you can make it sound like you don't know how it's actually done, that's best of all. remember-- mary sue sex isn't supposed to be arousing, but embarassing. you should also try to fit all these lovely -ing words into the sex scenes: "throbbing", "thrusting", "bulging", "trembling", "quaking". one more note: the male character does not have a "penis". nor does he have a "dick" or a "cock". he has a "hardness" or a "manhood". if you're going to be really risque, it's a "sex". women also have "sexes", or "womanhoods", or "wetnesses". just make sure not to describe genitalia with any term regularly used by anyone over 12 years old.
step seven: that thing... whaddaya call it? oh yeah... the plot! now that you've worked out who's going to strip off mary sue's tunic and make her a woman, and what he's gonna do it with, you have to devise some wanky little scenario to explain why and where he's doing so. just... oh, i dunno. stick them in a training room at the academy or a secluded corner of the rebel base. whatever.
if you've followed the instructions correctly, you should now have a really really awful piece of fanfic... congratulations! post it to the darth maul estrogen brigade or fanfiction.net, and wait for the accolades to come rollin' in!
"I don't know why I never saw it before. Padme is a complete ditz. I am madly in love with you, Rosaleniannah. Of course I'll come back to the light side. I no longer care whether Padme lives or dies anyway - and thank goodness you killed Darth Sidious! Now let me show you what I can do with my throbbing thrusting bulging trembling quaking manhood."