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Post by Fritz on Apr 18, 2005 11:12:24 GMT -4
Aw, heck, I got two other relationship threads going, why not complete the set? Kylie Griffin and Eduardo Rivera were in Extreme Ghostbusters, and had a nice, eccentric dynamic that reminded me a lot of Venkman and Dana in the movies: slacker and sarcastic flirt starts chasing guarded woman who doesn't want to give him the time of day; Slacker surprises himself by developing genuine feelings for someone he originally saw as just another potential "score"; guarded woman surprises herself by developing feelings for the kind of guy she's tried to avoid thus far. You get the idea... (since Dana wasn't ever in the animation, this is probably as close as we got to seeing what they would've been like on the small screen) Rosey, this is your football. I expect some nice long posts on the matter
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Post by EGBFan on Apr 19, 2005 8:13:26 GMT -4
Ah, fantastic! Now we’re talking! I wondered where this was yesterday. Fritz and I were on-line at the same time – guess I logged off too soon. Where to start? Well… from what I’ve seen of fan projects/comments/whatever on the net, Eduardo is Marmite: you either love him or hate him. (That’s generally speaking, you understand, with the research I’ve done – I think Fritz and Ben and probably a lot of you disprove that theory.) Which am I? Go on – guess. There’s just something very appealing about Eduardo – unless it’s the earrings (I like that in a man) I can’t really put my finger on it. He’s funny, kinda cute, good looking as cartoon characters go. I like the way he dresses, for some reason (kind of: I-don’t care-and-haven’t-made-an-effort-but-I-still-look-awesome), and I’m always very receptive to characters with attitude. He was a clear favourite from the start. Kylie, as a female Ghostbuster, instantly appealed (let’s not get into the gun thing now, though). And she’s Goth – that was new to me in 1997. I thought that was just SO COOL. And the first real scene they get together – “Darkness at Noon, Part 2”, a possessed Kylie seducing Eduardo in a darkened alley (almost!) – marvellous! Seriously, all of Akira’s suggestive looks and innuendo – she must have got that from somewhere. I think Kylie noticed that he had a nice butt or something from the start. And the end of that episode for them was… um… what you’d expect, I guess: Eduardo: So… you said some stuff before? When you were possessed? Kylie: I have no idea what you’re talking about. She’s avoiding his gaze – OBVIOUSLY LYING! That’s fine – she’s curious about this man who’s paying attention to her, but she’s been hurt in her life (I think that’s implied, and even if not then thanks to my stories she sure has now) – it’s a defence mechanism. But then she takes a piece of Garrett’s chocolate bar (I would have done that too) and quotes back to Eduardo his remark about her “put(ting) on a couple of pounds”, just in case we don’t get that she remembers everything. I’m sure this must mean something, but I can’t quite figure out what she’s trying to say. Is it like: I remember you making a total plank of yourself, but I’m sparing you some embarrassment by pretending to forget? Or, like, maybe it was the easiest way to reject him or something (even though she’s secretly totally hot for him – defence mechanism, see?), but then why the chocolate bar thing? Just for audience laughs? Have I thought about this too much?? I'm a sucker for a good love-hate relationship, and this one is just classic. I can’t think of a single cartoon love interest in which one person isn’t keener than the other (there’ll probably be a long list when I check back here ), and to start with it seems that Kylie isn’t interested. Sometimes she’s just plain mean to him, e.g. “Fear Itself”: Eduardo (genuinely concerned… says me): Are you ok? Kylie (just plain mean): Do I look ok? Eduardo (sheepish and crestfallen): Not really? Kylie (p***-off-and-leave-me-alone voice): There you go. Ok, it’s hard to tell if she really does reciprocate, at least until “The Unseen”. Fantastic episode, especially to an Ed/Ky shipper with a weird phobic thing about eyes (because they’re gooey and disgusting, ok? ). It’s fun to watch them arguing, as ever, and Kylie getting properly POed with Eduardo, and she’s carrying his proton gun, which just goes to show she can. Towards the start of the episode he’s blamed his careless misplacement of her proton pistol (it drove off in a garbage truck) on her, but he makes up for it later when Kylie has to sacrifice the proton pack to the soon-to-be bank robbers who have ended up with her gun. (When they've robbed the bank with proton guns, Egon, Roland and Garrett get arrested - brilliant!) After that, it’s all just really nice. They dispose of the ghost (Kylie does most of it), everyone has their eyes returned to them for a perfectly acceptable and plausible (if you can accept the rest of the plot) reason thank you very much (Fritz), and they almost hug, but then decide not to (I'm not sure how I feel about that). Kylie has the closing line, which I like: “Eduardo’s not so bad, once you scratch the surface.” It’s a great episode. There were a lot of sweet moments, as I recall. That ep where Kylie ends up in the future for some reason – I can’t remember the title – she returns to Eduardo’s genuine and heartfelt greeting of: “I thought we’d lost you forever.” Aww. Actually, when “Back in the Saddle” arrived in the mail a couple of years ago (imagine my excitement – I hadn’t seen a fresh EGB ep for years ), I was disappointed by the lack of Ed/Ky moments. They only squabble a couple of times, and never for very long. He rescues her twice though, which is nice, and she saves him from drowning. I love the look he gets when she’s unhooking his proton pack (to stop him from sinking). And I love the look Peter gives Eduardo, when he makes a terrible joke and Kylie kind of goes, “Ugghh!” It wasn’t the best episode, but apparently it had some good reaction shots. Well, that’s not everything I think about this topic, but I’ve probably lost most of you by now anyway so I’ll stop. Was that long enough for you, Fritz?
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Post by Captain Nate on Apr 19, 2005 9:00:59 GMT -4
There’s just something very appealing about Eduardo – unless it’s the earrings (I like that in a man) I can’t really put my finger on it. He’s funny, kinda cute, good looking as cartoon characters go. I like the way he dresses, for some reason (kind of: I-don’t care-and-haven’t-made-an-effort-but-I-still-look-awesome), and I’m always very receptive to characters with attitude. He was a clear favourite from the start. I really liked his attitude, too. One of the funniest moments in Darkness at Noon was when possessed Kylie was hitting on him, and the others warn Eduardo to back off and he replies "Why? She's legal." What he really meant though was that Isaac dude was getting on his nerves.
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Post by SuperStantzio on Apr 19, 2005 16:00:55 GMT -4
Hey also liked this two and the way they get along with each other. And I always thought that they made a excellent couple.
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Post by Fritz on Apr 20, 2005 10:41:18 GMT -4
Excellant. Maybe Venkman came to the same conclusion I did--they reminded him of himself and Dana ;D I know, from the EGB perspective, I could see why "Back In the Saddle" wasn't a favorite of yours--it often seemed more like an RGB story with the Extreme Team guest-starring. Of course, that's probably why even a lot of the EGB Haters go "But I liked that one..." That line did get a big laugh out of me too...it's one of those great lines that sails over the heads of eight year olds, but to us older folk has a clearly sexual implication. Rosey's done a superb job of developing Kylie, Eduardo, their families and backgrounds--and as you might expect in the shared continuity we've been working on, she's had them get together and have two kids. Check out her stories or, for the condensed version, their files on this page: www.ectozone.com/gbny
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Post by EGBFan on Apr 21, 2005 6:04:26 GMT -4
What he really meant though was that Isaac dude was getting on his nerves. What?? No! Shut up! Actually, I didn't manage to tape that episode (I can think of absolutely no reason at all why I wouldn't tape them all, but I didn't); the end is pretty much all I can remember. Everyone loves the "She's legal" line. That's what we call a sweeping statement. Well, from what I've seen of fan sites, it got a lot of laughs. When my brother and I watched it, he laughed louder than I did. He's two years older than I am and I didn't quite get it at first. I'm so naive! ;D
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Post by Kingpin on Apr 28, 2005 8:26:22 GMT -4
Ghost Apocalyptic Future Anyway, that was a good line, now that it can be appreciated. I suppose now that I know the old line: Boy meets girl Girl gets posessed by anchient sumerian god Girl puts the moves on boy Boy nearly gets infected with ghostly plague Girl gets shot Girl realises what happened, in horror Girl burns with righteous indignation Boy gets goatee yanked by girl... Etc, etcNow of course, I'm used to seeing them dating thanks to Rosey's work. Heck, even in a story I started around 2001/2002 I had Eduardo and Kylie dating...that story will now be the basis for a (sort of) return of the most dreaded thing to walk the streets in RGB, the thing that JMS hated so much... The Junior Ghostbusters. -- Keep watching for that, as I promise it's not what you might expect. Anyway...I never appreciated those stories that put Eduardo as a deadbeat boyfriend who ran off, leaving a pregnant Kylie, he might be a doofus some times, but he's actually kinda smart, like Venkman, plays dumb.
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Post by EGBFan on Jul 4, 2005 6:07:47 GMT -4
Ok then. Songs that could be about these guys. "As Lovers Go", by Dashboard Confessional It's from Shrek 2 (what an awesome movie), but it could be about anyone (rather than just Shrek and Fiona, I mean), and particularly Eduardo and Kylie. Let's see if I can remember the lyrics... She said, I've gotta be honest, You're wasting your time if you're fishing round here. I said you must be mistaken, I'm not foolin', this feeling is real. She said you've gotta be crazy, What do you take me for, Some kind of easy mark? You've got wits, you've got looks, you've got passion But I swear that you've got me all wrong. This is easy as lovers go, So don't complicate it by hesitating, This is wonderful as loving goes, this is... Tell me, what's the sense in waiting? ...... I get stuck after that, but the second verse isn't quite as relevant anyway. I don't remember who wrote the lyrics. Whoever you are, please don't sue me. Great song. Also: "Glorious" by Andreas Johnson The way I interpret it, "Glorious" is about a guy who thinks he's kind of not good enough, but being loved and wanted by this amazing woman makes him feel... well... glorious. I kinda think Eduardo feels something like that about Kylie (and possibly the other way around, but I'm not quite sure about that). "Secret Smile" by Semisonic Nobody knows it, but you've got a secret smile, And you use it only for me. So save me, I'm waiting, I'm needing, Hear me pleading, And soothe me, improve me, I'm grieving, I'm barely believing...... Just a snatch of the lyrics that I can remember. It can be about anybody who's secretly in love, but more than that I think it's about two people who don't wear their hearts on their sleeves, but they have like really intense feelings that they only share with each other, and their relationship is really much more intense than it seems on the outside, or something. See? I can be romantic when I want to be.
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CJ
Doberman
Doom Patrol...Yeah you heard right
Posts: 99
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Post by CJ on Aug 27, 2005 23:11:02 GMT -4
Revived. Not so much Bumped as I have no real thoughts on the E/J relationship (seems everyone else here does, so I much rather prefer the Black Sheep role).
The Kylie/Eduardo thing I didnt really catch up on until after I started re-watching a lot episodes. Personally, at the time, I thought that maybe Kylie was going after Roland, or Roland had a thing for Kylie.
(in addition to this, i didn't warm to Eduardo at the beginning for two reasons: he did honestly seem like a Venkman rip and his personality was something much harsher and sarcastic than his friends, putting me off as a viewer to this guy for a while)
But, as all things go, I came around a little and thought that their relationship might as well be the real thing. However, in terms of fanfics, I have always had this qualm:
If Kylie's had a kid as of 2004 (Chronicles of Gozer) how come her body is so frick'n lean so quickly?
And the crowd laughs from the corridors
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Post by Jeremy Hicks on Aug 28, 2005 5:33:51 GMT -4
More than likely it's because of the work she does. Could you imagine chasing ghosts all day and not get into great shape? And before you say anything, Ray's a special case.
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Post by EGBFan on Sept 24, 2005 17:58:30 GMT -4
I imagine she had some extra weight after both births, at least for a while - hey, maybe it's still there. And she's definitely got stretch marks.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 31, 2005 12:39:40 GMT -4
Right, ok... Actually I noticed that everytime Ed saved Kylie, she would save him back in the same episode. I always thought that was a See I'm not to stupid to save you statement from Ed and a See I'm not to feminine to save you statement from Kylie. I thought it was their way of flirting with each other. They would say things like, "Hey you saved my life, I owe you one" followed by a "Hey you just saved me, now we're even." I thought it was cute, we can take this over to their thread if you want. Don't go mad looking for it - Ghostdiva said this in the "Hearts in Eclipse" thread. It started off as a few random points about rescue, arising from the story, but now I agree that it definitely belongs here. Ok, so like, I watched the entire EGB series recently. Very recently. My memory is pretty terrible, but as I recall, that - what Ghostdiva said - only really happened in "Back in the Saddle" (which isn't even a very good ep, if you're not tired of hearing that from me). Peter, Winston, Kylie and Eduardo are on a boat, chasing the fog monster-type thing. The monster begins eating the boat, and then for no apparent reason it decides to splurge out a tendril and grab Kylie by the leg. It nearly eats her, but then Eduardo pulls her free. She doesn't really get the opportunity to say "I owe you one", although I suspect that the writer kinda wanted her to. Moments later they're in the sea, and Eduardo is being dragged down by his proton pack. Kylie rescues him; they swim to the surface, Eduardo says "Thanks," Kylie says (with an enigmatic little smile), "Well, now we're even." So, then what happens? During the climactic attack on the entity, the monster thingy decides again that it would like to eat Kylie. This time it grabs her by the waist - maybe they tried to make it a bit different this time so it wouldn't get boring. Anyway, Eduardo rescues her again. They fall to the ground and look relieved; Kylie says, "I owe you one again." It's a nice moment - but now, Kylie has one rescue to Eduardo's two. So you see, I do think I'm right about the rescue ratio being disproportionate. Ok, I'm not done. If you're still reading, good on you - maybe take a break if you intend to go on. Right, thinking... I just counted four incidents of Eduardo rescuing Kylie on my fingers, but there's someone reading aloud about toads right behind me (don't ask me why) so I may forget them, or I may think of others. Oop - just did. So, five. Let's see if I can remember... in no particular order: 1. "Seeds of Destruction": the giant plant drags Kylie out of a tall building, holds her for a bit while she tries to reason with it (she can be rash), and then drops her (I forget exactly why). Eduardo charges out to the balcony and grabs her by the ankle - it's a very heroic, testosterone-fuelled moment. Kylie says, "Whoa, I could have been street pizza." Eduardo says, "Not while I'm around." Then they have a look. 2. Ok, this one's nice. "Sonic Youth": Kylie's, can't remember, shooting the banshee or something. An overlarge brick is about to fall on her from a tall building. I forget why. Eduardo, thankfully, notices. He shouts, "Kylie, look out!" - like you would - makes a mad dash for her and pushes her to the ground. He ends up lying on top of her, proton pack and all (and she's only little - ouch), and she gives the back of his head this look, like, "Oop!" And then he just stands up and runs off. Like I say, very nice. 3. "Till Death do us Start": even nicer. It's a lovely scene, if you're a shipper. The ghost bride, who is terrorising ex-yuppie Leonard, is hiding in a mirror. Kylie flirts (pretty outrageously) with Leonard to entice her out, and understandably the ghost bride attacks her. What's the line...? "Stay away from my man, witch!" - something like that. Either Roland or Garrett (sorry, I've only seen it a couple of times) wants to blast the ghost, but because of Kylie he "can't get a clear shot!" Eduardo charges into the ghost and headbutts her away from Kylie, and they manage to trap the ghost (for now...). What ensues is nice, but I won't go into all of it. However the lines immediately following are worth noting. Kylie says, "Eduardo, that was brave of you." Eduardo says, rather sheepishly, "Yeah, well... sometimes my instincts just take over" - that quote may not be exact. Anyway, it's nice. Very, very nice - makes me smile, like this: Anyway, I won't finish the scene - I'll just say that it's doubly nice, because they're all in their pyjamas. How many was that? 3 - ok, 2 to go. Um... yeah... 4. "Heart of Darkness": this one's short, kinda funny, though not a classic shipper moment. Kylie, as is her way, has a grabby thing on her ankle. Eduardo shoots a little burst of proton fire to make it back of and says, laughingly, "That's the eighth grade cheerleader of the year you're messing with." I like that, just because it's funny. I don't count it as a moment, but it's definitely a rescue, albeit a small-scale one. 5. Ok, this one's my favourite. "Be Careful what you Wish for" (absolutely fantastic ep, possibly the best, in my opinion): Kylie is being carried off by a sort of pterodactyl-type thing (I know why it was there, but it's kinda complicated, so I won't go into it). Eduardo, in the body of Kylie's cat Pagan, jumps onto the pterodactyl's back and digs his claws in, which can be kinda painful - my cat does it a lot. Anyway, it drops Kylie, and thankfully it's flying low enough for her not to hurt herself. Her next line is great: "Thanks, Pagan." And she does it again, when Eduardo jumps on the evil demon salesman's suitcase when they're all close to falling for it; she says, "Pagan's right, you guys." But when Eduardo runs off, it's, "Eduardo - get back here!" I guess it's kind of obvious, but I think it's cute. Ok, yay, I remembered. There may be more - and there may of course be instances of her rescuing him that I have forgotten. But anyway, my original point was that male/female and female/male rescues seem disproportionate. That was my evidence. Very thorough, no?
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Post by ghostdiva on Dec 31, 2005 17:37:27 GMT -4
Didn't she help pull him from the containment unit in "Slimer's Sacrifice" ? Anyway I really thought that was the kind of thing that the writers were going for. ghostdiva
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Post by EGBFan on Apr 20, 2007 5:42:22 GMT -4
I felt like kicking my football around. ;D Blame my brother. He’s fond of compiling top ten lists for his favourite childhood show - so I, copycat that I am, thought: I might as well try it myself. Here, then, are my top ten Ed/Ky moments (more than likely not all quotes are 100% accurate): 10. “Seeds of Destruction”It looks very much as though Kylie is about to fall from a great height, having been dropped by the evil giant plant (of course - why not?), when Eduardo charges out onto the balcony and grabs her by the ankle at the last moment. An unlikely (and not at all because of the plant) and exaggerated situation. The subsequent smiley moment they have is nice, until you realise it’s gone on for just a second or two too long. Kylie: Whoa. I could have been street pizza. Eduardo: Not as long as I’m around. (Overlong mutually adoring gaze.)9. “The Unseen”Eduardo makes up for letting Kylie take the blame for him losing her gun when he claims to have lost his proton pack, even though she’s about to confess to losing it herself… you know the kind of thing. Quite nice, but clichéd and predictable, and not all that well done. Kylie: Why’d you cover for me? Eduardo: I just didn’t want the worst day of your life to… get any worse.8. “Back in the Saddle, Part 2”Kylie gets to be the rescuer rather than the rescuee, for once in a way. Unfortunately she has to be saved by Eduardo twice during the episode (neither of these moments made the cut here). Eduardo is dragged under the sea by the weight of his proton pack. Kylie swims down and unhooks it, during which time the expression on Eduardo’s face is beautiful ( Imagine if…?). A refreshing moment in an otherwise pretty bad episode. Eduardo: Thanks! (It’s the way he says it.) Kylie: Yeah, well. Now we’re even. (That line bugs me. See my comments in Worst Episodes for why.) 7. “Be Careful What You Wish For”One long Ed/Ky moment, really. A wish-granting demon transplants Eduardo into the body of Kylie’s cat Pagan. Kylie: Get out of my cat!The coolest part? Another Eduardo save, this time from a pteranadon (or is it a pterodactyl? - either way, the result of someone saying to the demon, “I wish it could be like the old days”), using his newfound leaping abilities and sharp claws. Garrett: I do not wanna know what Eduardo wished for. (Nothing to do with the pteranadon bit, but… well, funny if you have a lowbrow sense of humour like mine.) 6. “Sonic Youth”A pretty hefty stone block is about to fall on Kylie. Eduardo rugby tackles her, knocks her to the floor and lies spread-eagled on top of her with his face smushed into her hair. The block narrowly misses them both. Eduardo starts to get up, and Kylie cuts him a sideways glance with an absolutely priceless expression on her face (to me it says, Ooh, nice). No interesting dialogue - only: Eduardo: Yo, Kylie! Heads up! Both: Oomph!5. “Fear Itself”Well, there’s the short exchange after the maggot incident, but it doesn’t do a lot for me. Number five on my list is the bit where Kylie gets sucked into the floor by some grabby tentacle things, and Eduardo falls to his knees and beats his tight little fists on the solid concrete where she stood, making throaty noises of frustration. Simple, but effective. Kylie: AAAAAHHH!4. “Ghost Apocalyptic Future”There are some problems with the way this one’s done, I happen to think, but the Ed/Ky dynamic really stands out as being one of the better aspects of the episode. Eduardo is worried and angry to the point of violence (he’s stopped… probably by Roland) when Kylie disappears and in her place is some guy… Eduardo: WHAT DID YOU DO WITH KYLIE?…and then he’s touchingly relieved when she comes back at the end of the episode. Eduardo: I thought we’d lost you for good. Er, I mean… that Isaac dude was really starting to get on my nerves. Kylie: Ah-ha.3. “In Your Dreams”Eduardo starts having a somewhat racy dream about Kylie, in which she looks like the most appalling male-concocted stereotype of femininity - skimpy black leather, red stilettos (whoever invented those should have been stabbed with one), shiny red lipstick, miles of cleavage etc. - but I guess it’s ok to use very obvious symbolism in a cartoon. Kylie: O-o-o-h, Eduarrrdo. I love being near you. (Tara Charendoff, as she was then, the queen of voiceovers, doesn’t take any half measures with those lines.) The dream (unfortunately for Eddie, fortunately for us) is interrupted and turned into a nightmare by the demon Morpheus. The dream sequence is hilarious (and, the first time, a bit shocking), and is later revisited when Eduardo meets up again with the real Kylie. Kylie: You… dream about me? Eduardo: It was a nightmare, ok?(The first few times I heard these lines, I wasn’t sure I liked them - Kylie sounded to me like she wanted to laugh if he said yes. But then my brother said he thought that she sounded flattered - even hopeful of a yes. I like that reading much better.) 2. “Darkness at Noon, Part 2”Their first real moment. Kylie has been possessed by the demon Akira and starts seducing Eduardo in the middle of a parking lot. Eduardo can’t believe his luck, and consequently is too excited to realise that Kylie is clearly not herself. His smile when she asks him to kiss her is, quite honestly, most convincing. Tara Charendoff and Rino Romano both play the dialogue brilliantly. And what wonderful dialogue it is. Kylie: Are you happy to see me, Eduarrrdo? Eduardo: Um… sure. Kylie: Because I’m reeealllly happy to see you. From the first time I saw you in the lecture hall, I felt… an attraction. Did you feel it… too? Eduardo: Well, I don’t know, sort of. I mean, you could stand to put on a couple of pounds. Kylie: A good looking guy like you was really hard to resist. Kiss me, Eduarrrdo! I want you to.(Tara and Akira seem to agree that being a bit whiny is an effective way of getting a guy to kiss you. “I want you toooo…” A man likes a woman he can baby.) Roland: Back off, Eduardo! Eduardo: Why? She’s legal. (Tee hee. ;D) 1. “Till Death Do Us Start”The simplest, and the loveliest Ed/Ky moment. I must have cited this scene now almost half a dozen times. I just love it. During a little night time chat in the firehouse between the four Ghostbusters and their client Leonard Bates, Eduardo stays very quiet while Kylie’s talking about how she envisions her future. His reaction is a single eye movement, lasting for all of a second. It speaks volumes, and is absolutely beautiful. Kylie: You know what I want? To travel the world with a handsome, intelligent man. Garrett: Ooooooh, a man. You hear that, Eddie? You’re almost her type - one out of three ain’t bad.Rosey, this is your football. I expect some nice long posts on the matter There, you see - Fritz wanted me to. And I didn't forget, even after two years.
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Post by Fritz on Apr 21, 2007 8:59:23 GMT -4
That line killed me. It came about as close as an all-ages cartoon could to acknowledging the very "lowbrow" possible explaination as to what wish Eduardo could make to get him stuck inside Kylie's cat. I think the fact that Garrett even said that hints that he figured it out too. Having a very dirty mind, I laughed myself silly with that episode.
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