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Post by ghostdiva on Aug 24, 2005 15:52:07 GMT -4
So...what do you guys consider the TRUE Egon and Janine episodes? THose with any references to their relationship or only those that seems to revolve around them? I vote for anything with a reference.
Also, a nice little quirk to Janine I realized the other day. She never, in any episode or movie, drinks coffee. She makes it a bunch of times but neverr drinks any, even though the guys do. Interesting, no?
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Post by Fritz on Aug 24, 2005 17:56:38 GMT -4
I think I've mentioned all my favorites and "key" episodes again and again...I wanna see what everyone else says in response to this...
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Post by Kingpin on Aug 25, 2005 10:05:20 GMT -4
Heh heh, after the 'big' one, AKA Janine, You've Changed, one of the most notable is either Ghostbusted or Ragnorock and Roll. The former, he and Janine share a embrace and a moment to which the other guys for most avert their eyes, and the latter one Egon could be sharing in the guys' banter as they get ready to make the supreme sacrifice, but instead he utters one single word, a name. And no way in hell it's a 'Oh, I must mention Janine's name because she's a platonic friend and we've forgotten about her...' If that were the case, why not 'Slimer'?
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Aug 25, 2005 14:26:39 GMT -4
And no way in hell it's a 'Oh, I must mention Janine's name because she's a platonic friend and we've forgotten about her...' If that were the case, why not 'Slimer'? Exactly. I loved that moment in Ragnarok and Roll because it was so understated, and yet it revealed exactly how much Janine meant to him. No matter what the Egon fangirls say, it was very obvious that he was thinking about her in what could have been his last moments because he loved her, not because he was just friendly with her. Personally, I prefer the moments when you get to see how Egon feels about Janine, because they are so few and far between that when they do come along, it's like 'Yes! He does have feelings for her, after all!'. Another telling Egon moment comes in The Grundel, where Janine lists all those she loves, and leaves him out after he says that he doesn’t need to be told that he is loved. He seems quite upset by this until she calls him back to tell him she loves him the most, which seems to cheer him up. The other guys didn't seem too bothered about it, but he did. If he didn't really care about her, why would he be so upset at being left out of her 'love list'?
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Aug 26, 2005 10:49:15 GMT -4
Then there's Rollerghoster...Egon and Janine are clearly on some sort of date, and later Winston (I think) says something to the effect of 'Did you scare her off again, Egon?'. And of course Robo-Buster where Egon gets more than a little hot under the collar at the Janine/Paul Smart (non-)romance.
It's all cool. Still, it pisses me off no end when certain people try to blithely shrug off these instances. But they're not as bad as the 'Egon is gay' crowd (not a large group thank God). I mean, just because he wears a pink jumpsuit, likes opera, has an unusual hairstyle, and doesn't notice Janine most of the time doesn't make him gay.
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Aug 26, 2005 12:21:17 GMT -4
It's all cool. Still, it pisses me off no end when certain people try to blithely shrug off these instances. But they're not as bad as the 'Egon is gay' crowd (not a large group thank God). I mean, just because he wears a pink jumpsuit, likes opera, has an unusual hairstyle, and doesn't notice Janine most of the time doesn't make him gay. I think the problem is that even in an episode like Rollerghoster, Egon denies he was on a ‘daaate’, even though it seems blatantly obvious to all of us that he was. It gives credence to the idea that he’s just humouring her. Unfortunately, as much as some E/J moments do give us ‘shippers’ a little boost, it also tends to give Egon fangirls/slash fans the ammunition to blow the relationship out of the water. Even in Janine, You’ve Changed, which is arguably the most meaningful E/J episode in the entire show, after Egon admits he loves her he expands the statement to include the others, yet again adding fuel to the fangirl/slash fire. Even though the episode revolves around the fact that Janine wants Egon to notice her in a loving manner rather than a friendly one, it still ends up more ambiguous than it should. If it weren’t for the fact that he actually asks her out on a date at the end of the episode, people would still be none the wiser as to his intentions towards her. There is enough evidence in the show to support the relationship between Egon and Janine, but there is also enough evidence to refute it completely, which is highly frustrating.
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Post by Fritz on Aug 26, 2005 17:53:02 GMT -4
Ockham's Razor, Lurker. The simplest explaination is the best. And "he loves her but has trouble saying it" is the simplest explaination.
And as you yourself noted, after all, what would be the "ambiguous" explaination for "Ragnarok and Roll"?
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Post by Kingpin on Aug 26, 2005 21:18:57 GMT -4
Ockham's Razor, Lurker. The simplest explaination is the best. And "he loves her but has trouble saying it" is the simplest explaination. And as you yourself noted, after all, what would be the "ambiguous" explaination for "Ragnarok and Roll"? That she won't get paid as she's at the Firehouse and they're about to become seperated molecules... I hate the Slash writers, they take practically ZERO evidence and then create something completely impossible. Justifying twisted and warped views for a bizarre agenda.
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Post by SuperStantzio on Aug 26, 2005 21:54:59 GMT -4
Yeah I have to agree with that. I don't like slash stories that much and I find them pretty disgusting and it's not the guys nature. I just like good old stories were the guys are not in homosexual realtionships. I think they have no regard to the E/J realtionships either.
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Post by Miss Janine on Aug 27, 2005 10:08:27 GMT -4
I look at it this way...There are enough canon references in the established GBU (movies, cartoon, comics) to the fact that there ARE feelings between Egon and Janine. It can be taken as "I really care about you" or "I love you" or "Forget love, let's just do the nasty", depending on your POV on it. In the world of fan-fiction, it can be taken anyway a writer wants it. Sticking to canon, we choose to believe that they have a budding relationship, that we then take further, to dates, problems, then marriage and children. If another writer wants to take it another way, that's cool. I might not like it, but hey, whatever. Sometimes those stories are really good, and I myself see them as kind of "alternate universe" tales. That's just my mindset. And if you want to go the *shudder* slash route, with Egon and the others being more than friends, go for it. There's an audience for every kind of story. But, in OUR world, Egon and Janine are together, and that's that.
*Hope I got my thoughts across, as I'm fighting a stupid migraine, and it seems to be winning. D*** glasses*
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Post by Fritz on Aug 27, 2005 10:11:45 GMT -4
I have nothing against homosexual characters--I just have a problem with people trying to shoehorn the trait into established characters who clearly aren't. I remember this coming up in a discussion with Brian Reilly a couple years back, and we pretty much agreed that it doesn't work with any of the characters.
Venkman: Hello? About the only way you can justify Venkman being gay is "he's overcompensating blah blah blah" or some junk. We first see him hitting on Jennifer, the student. He spends two movies chasing Dana Barrett around. He goes after numerous women in the cartoon.
Dana: Dates Venkman. Actually procreates
Ray: Sure, he's shy and doesn't seem to draw as much female attention as the others...but either (depending on how you look at it) quite enjoyed an encounter with a female ghost in the first movie, or dreamed about one. Plus he clearly liked Elaine Fuhrman.
Winston: Talks about his girlfriend on numerous occassions. We see her in RGB#23
Louis: Dana Barrett and Janine Melnitz are clearly not men.
Egon: Have you been paying attention in this thread? "Robo Buster", "Ragarok and Roll", "Janine You've Changed", "Back In the Saddle", even the final scene of GB1 make it clear he has a soft spot for a certain redheaded female of the species.
Janine: Spends the entire frickin' series save "Robo Buster" and a brief time around GB2 chasing Egon. And Paul Smart and Louis Tully were definitely not women.
Even the EGB guys won't work...Eddie and Kylie clearly like each other, Roland had Syren, Garrett had Persephone...sorry dudes, unless you count Slimer's obsession with Venkman (and he's a frickin' ghost, so any concept of gender is highly debateable) you've got a pretty heterosexual bunch here.
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Aug 27, 2005 10:44:17 GMT -4
I guess it's inevitable that in a fandom which has four men living and working together, there will be slash. Seeing some of the stuff at Godawful Fan Fiction has actually made me kind of glad Ghostbusters isn't a big popular fandom... But speaking of fanfic (and going a little offtopic), has anyone read this story: www.fanfiction.net/s/529894/1/Now there's how to blend Ghostbusters with M-rated situations. I could hear the guys' voices and everything...funny how Egon managed to remain in character and everything... ;D The ending's a tad predictable though...
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Aug 27, 2005 13:08:49 GMT -4
Ockham's Razor, Lurker. The simplest explaination is the best. And "he loves her but has trouble saying it" is the simplest explaination. That’s very true. He does have great difficulty saying it and expressing himself when it comes to Janine. Unfortunately, some people choose to interpret Egon’s reticence as disinterest, or the actions of a close friend rather than someone with a romantic inclination who just can’t manage to express it yet. Those few moments when he does manage to reveal his affection toward her are misread by some as efforts to placate Janine rather than genuine displays of affection. And as you yourself noted, after all, what would be the "ambiguous" explaination for "Ragnarok and Roll"? Well, for most sane thinking people, it is obvious that the mention of Janine’s name in Ragnarok and Roll is fairly indicative of Egon’s feelings for her, but some people do find ambiguity there, as Kingpin mentioned, even though they really shouldn’t. As Miss Janine said, it all depends on your POV, and whether you choose to support the E/J relationship or head in another, weirder direction. But speaking of fanfic (and going a little offtopic), has anyone read this story: www.fanfiction.net/s/529894/1/Now there's how to blend Ghostbusters with M-rated situations. I could hear the guys' voices and everything...funny how Egon managed to remain in character and everything... ;D The ending's a tad predictable though... I first read this story ages ago, and thought it was hilarious. As you say, the advice from the others is priceless, and Egon's reaction to the 'situation' he ends up finding himself in is very believeable. ;D
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Post by Miss Janine on Aug 28, 2005 5:50:11 GMT -4
Read that one a few years ago, and yes, I loved it, too! Couldn't stop laughing. Poor Egon. Fritz: I completely agree with you. I was just trying to clarify, a bit, how I feel about some types of stories. What's weird is, the only one of *those* I remember Janine appearing in, she was doing exactly what Ms. Gladstone accused her of doing. Funny stories, but Not Likely To Happen (and DEFINITELY Not Canon).
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Post by ghostdiva on Aug 28, 2005 14:43:30 GMT -4
Cry Uncle anyone? I have really always treasured this as an E/J ep. I really believe that he was glad he could go back home and be near Janine. That neverending hug at the end just says it all, not to mention the one in the middle. ghostdiva
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