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Post by Fritz on Aug 27, 2004 20:55:52 GMT -4
The controversial 1997 sequel to The Real Ghostbusters...so how did you take it?
I'm in the "It wasn't as good as JMS Era RGB, but sure as hell was better than the 'Magnificent Five' or 'Ransom of Greenspud' " category.
The Pros
As it came out years after RGB, it took place years after RGB. I admit I much prefer series that grow, change, and evolve over the years to those which keep the same damn status quo for years on end.
I like the new characters. Eduardo and Kylie had a bickering romantic vibe slightly evocative of Venkman and Dana's. Garrett was irrepressibly gung-ho, and Roland provided the necessary common sense any group of Ghostbusters needs. I personally though the actors had good chemistry and played off of each other and the supporting cast (especially Maurice LaMarche) pretty well.
Slimer was restored to "mostly incoherent babbling gluttonous pet" after the trespass of the "Slimer talks clearly and saves their asses every episode" problems of late RGB. They even drew him a little uglier, to boot.
Egon and Janine, my favorite characters from RGB, were important supporting players. Maurice LaMarche was even back to play Egon! Janine aquired her third voice actress, Pat Musick, who was not nearly as grating on the nerves as Kath "Miss Helium" Soucie. And while certain developments in their romantic relationship were forgotton (see Cons below) the relationship itself was not, and by late episodes like "Back In the Saddle" it's clearly blossoming. And Louis f***ing Tully is not even mention in this show.
Ray, Venkman, and Winston even turn up in two episodes.
There was a darkness and intensity to the plots that at times rivalled such RGB classics as "Ragnarok and Roll"
The Cons
Like everyone else, I admit I hated the new "improved" equipment. It just smacked of "We gotta do something different in the new series". Not to say that some fan fic writers (the RazorsEdge) haven't mined these ideas for good effect, though.
The rather oblique PC-ness of the characters (We have a Girl, an African American, a Latino, and a Handi-Capable!) It was better explained that say, the Power Rangers (a gymnast, a hip hopper, a martial artist, an Asian girl, and a geek all happen to just hang out?) but still felt a bit forced on us.
As cool as the characters were, they did lack the chemistry of the originals. Murray, Aykroyd, Ramis, and Hudson or Music, Welker, LaMarche, and Hall. Both groups had superb chemistry and comedic genius going for them.
Egon and Janine's touchingly weird romance started the series backtracked from where it had been: in RGB, Egon declares his love for her in "Janine You've Changed". By all rights, they should've started this series married, maybe with kids.
Ray, Venkman, and Winston came back for two episodes...but it had Dave Coulier and Buster Jones doing the voices. How much cooler would it have been to have had Lorenzo Music and Arsenio Hall? Sigh... And they were all too old looking. And why the f*** was Ray wearing one of Egon's flight suits?
The dark plots were sometimes laughably defanged by American kids television standards and practices. People could have their souls eaten or their eyes plucked out, but when the monster was slapped in the trap everything would magically return to normal.
So my judgement: Flawed, but worthy. Perhaps you will see differently...
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Aug 27, 2004 21:27:00 GMT -4
I've seen about seven or eight eps. I enjoyed them about as much as I'd enjoy a mediocre episode of RGB, say 'A Fright at the Opera' or 'I Am The City', and a bit more than some of the worst episodes like 'Stay Tooned' or 'Surely You Joust'. I'm not a big fan of teenagers and shows based around teenagers , so that was a major sticking point for me. Plus the new equipment sucked.
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Aug 28, 2004 13:06:49 GMT -4
I tend to agree with both of you guys, really. Like Joker, I've only seen a handful of episodes, and I've never actually hated EGB, but I just didn't feel a huge compulsion to tune in and watch, either. Like Fritz, I was really hoping to see Janine and Egon married, possibly with children, and to find them back at step one (when they'd come such a long way in RGB), was a disappointment. I must admit that I really liked the character of Kylie, and although Eduardo was a bit irritating to me, I too liked their bickering and possible romance. Garrett and Roland, however, just didn't feature on my radar. To me, their characters seemed really non-descript, despite one of them being wheelchair-bound. As Joker mentioned, the whole teenage aspect of it was another turn-off, kind of like the new Thunderbirds movie where the kids are the centre of all the attention, while the more experienced adults are conveniently elsewhere. I think that there should have been more of an equal balance between the new and the already established characters, for at least a little while, until the newer characters had found their own particular niche in the world of ghostbusting. I've never really been too bothered about the type of equipment they use, but more the storylines and the characters. If the established characters were treated with a little more respect rather than just featured in a one-off 'special', and the characterisation of the newer GBs was a little better, then I probably would have been a bit more interested. However, I would like to add that I really love the EGB fanfic by EGB Fan (Rosey Collins) and Fritz. Strangely enough, their interpretation of Extreme Ghostbusters, for me, seems much better than the original show.
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raysgal
Extreme Ghostbuster
Ooohhh...
Posts: 58
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Post by raysgal on Aug 28, 2004 15:29:57 GMT -4
I actually remember watching the series when it came out. I kinda stopped though. I have to admit I am not the biggest fan of EGB. And I will complain that when they brought the guys back I hated almost everything about them. They looked old, had stupid jobs (Ray did...that was mean of them ), and were kinda rude to the kids. (Ray would so not blow off Kylie like that. No matter how old he got.) There might have been a few good episodes though, but I honestly have not had the opportunity to watch all of them because I stopped. Though I have watched a few on GBN. (I kinda like the one where Janine ends up like a bug and Egon's gotta declare his love.) Oh, that's another thing. You are so right, Fritz. (You usually are though. So no big surprise.) Egon and Janine should have totally been in a serious relationship and just about ready to get married. (At some point I am so gonna write a fic about their marriage. I don't care what anyone says they are a great couple.) Anyway, if this was to come back on TV or maybe start being sold on DVD I would highly consider watching/buying it. I thought it was okay, but could have used some improvement, which could have happened if it had been on longer. Of course, bringing back the guys and having them more like their old characters might have made a great cartoon as well. It had super potential. It just didn't make it all the way there.
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Aug 28, 2004 16:26:53 GMT -4
Ya know, I can't understand why they didn't just do it the easy way... The guys are still together, but old enough to realise that they need a new generation to take over the reigns. Egon and Janine are married/in a very serious relationship, the other guys have significant others and are reaching the point in their lives where ghostbusting isn't their total priority anymore. Maybe one of them has a serious accident and comes to the realisation that it's too dangerous a job for them to do. Ergo, they advertise for new blood. We have a comic episode where they go through the utter dregs and fruitloops of society (see the character of Mary Sue Gladstone ) to find the new foursome. They could have had a range of ages, and life experiences. Once they've found the new breed, they all train them up to become the future of ghostbusting. For a while, the fresh team work with the older team, they all have a bit of camaraderie going, and then slowly they come to the conclusion that some will stay (Egon and Janine), to ensure that the new team are all truly settled, and the others start off for their new lives. Occasionally there'll be the odd episode where a ghostbuster will pop back for one reason or another (like they themselves have a ghost to bust, or just to check up on things, for example), but generally things will then slip into the Extreme Ghostbusters situation that we are all familiar with.
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Aug 28, 2004 16:33:29 GMT -4
The show could definitely have been far, far worse - imagine if it had been centred round the Junior Ghostbusters...
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Post by Fritz on Aug 28, 2004 18:29:46 GMT -4
I don't think ANY of us would've liked it then... Not the hugest deal for me either; there are people who seem to hate the show just for the equipment. I didn't like it but ultimately could live with it. I agree that seemed a little out of character for Ray. And selling used cars is way below his qualifications and dignity (that sounds like something Venkman would be better at ) Venkman's job (Hollywood Agent) kind of fit him, though. That scenario might have satisfied a lot of people--it has some similarities to concepts in Aykroyd's GB3 treatment. I can only guess that the producers thought that if the older characters were still around and given too much to do, they'd completely overpower the new ones. And it's a valid fear--even the lesser team of Coulier, Welker, LaMarche, and Jones pretty much run away with "Back In The Saddle" Thanks There's some people who absolutely hated the show who nevertheless credit Rosey with "salvaging" the characters...I've pretty much just sat back and followed her lead.
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Post by EGBFan on Jan 11, 2005 4:36:24 GMT -4
I can’t believe I missed this. I’m an idiot. But you guys all know that by now. Ok then, my thoughts on EGB. This post could get distinctly long and boring. But hey – you can always skip bits, right? And Fritz gives me the distinct impression that he wants a reaction from me to all this. Well, the first thing I have to do is disagree with a couple of the things Fritz said. Fritz, sweetheart, you can’t really fault EGB for sugar-coating a little for the young ones. It’s a kids’ show. And that comment on “chemistry” – I actually kinda don’t like the word “chemistry” (there are just certain words I don’t like for absolutely no reason whatsoever, ok?) – but since I can’t think of a better one and everyone knows what we mean by “chemistry”, I’ll use it. I think the EGBs had a great “chemistry” all of their own. They worked really well together and that’s why the show was so damn great. And finally, Egon and Janine having kids. I wouldn’t mind that, but Fritz, you’d hate it. Think about it, mate: no Spengler twins. You would have been deprived, and so would some of the rest of us. Whatever Egon and Janine’s kids were like on the show, I’m sure you’d always have felt you could do better. So isn’t it better this way? Egon and Janine should have been married… ok, maybe. It didn’t bother me that much because I didn’t remember RGB very well when I first watched it, I was never that into Egon and Janine (Fritz’s stories have kinda got me more into that) and I am 95% sure that I have never seen “Janine You’ve Changed”. I certainly didn’t know the whole E/J situation ever came to anything. So I guess you’re right… but it didn’t bother me… which let’s face it is all that matters. ;D Now then. The EGB characters. I love them and I wouldn’t change them for anything. Not even Roland, because he works great the way he is, but he is my least favourite. He doesn’t have very many laughs and his hair isn’t long enough, which I’m sure is why I can’t think up any kind of love interest for him. The political correctness issue kinda gives me a headache. I really like that the EGBs are a little lower down the class-scale than the white middle-class men who kicked the whole thing off. They just seem very human to me. Black guy… well, why not? Black guys go to college. RGB had one, and at least Roland isn’t so conspicuous with a few more tokens around. Tokenism – there’s something else that gives me a headache. So there’s a woman Ghostbuster now. What’s the big deal? Huh? HUH? That is absolutely the way it should be and I’ve always thought so. My only problem with Kylie is that I’m jealous of her figure… and sometimes her man. Eduardo. Now he was definitely a good idea. Latin-American men are sexy. I kinda like to think that’s why they put one in, but I guess maybe it isn’t. Still, he strikes me as the sex appeal. (I’d have to be properly annoyed if Kylie was the only sexy one.) I know people don’t like him, and I can kinda see why in a funny sort of way (even though I have tremendous insight and know he’s kinda like Shrek and onions with his layers), but I’ve found on fanfiction.net and a couple of other sites that he seems to appeal to fans of the show, particularly women. And particularly me. ;D Wheelchair. Yeah, ok, that struck me the first time I watched. But I couldn’t imagine Garrett without it now, yet at the same time it kinda pales into obscurity once you get to know him. I found an article somewhere on the Net about how they deliberately made the EGBs non-superhero-ish characters, and Garrett wasn’t originally supposed to have a wheelchair, but without it or something similar he didn’t really fit, being brave to the point of stupid and an adrenaline junkie and that. Maybe that was just an excuse for overdoing it, I dunno. All I know is I love him just as he is. The whole PC aspect, apart from giving me a headache when I really think about it, just doesn’t bother me. Tokenism came about because TV started in the days when middle-class white men ruled the world (what is it with me and middle-class white men today?), and that’s why people think tokenism is dumb, but GB all happens in New York and the diversity of the EGB characters seems to me like a fairly accurate representation. I like teen cartoons ok, and this one’s a little different from the others I’ve watched anyway – and there’s nothing wrong with teenagers thank you very much. (Sadly I can only be indignant about this for another six months. ) As to the dark and dingy feel to the whole thing, I was a bitch in 1997/8 and it really appealed to me then. I still think it’s pretty cool now, mainly because it’s different I suppose. I like different. Oh no, I’m not done yet. And no, no one’s found my off switch yet. Ok, so however much people liked RGB, I don’t think having the originals in EGB would have worked AT ALL. They might just as well have made new episodes of RGB. The EGBs would be surplus to requirement, they’d be ignored when it was realised the fans didn’t like them, they might even get axed. Sound good? Well, not to me. It was their show and they needed the space. I guess what would have made it better for RGB fans would have made it worse for EGB fans – and there are others out there, they just don’t seem to have noticed that I’m championing their cause around these parts all by my very loud self. But anyway, as to “Back in the Saddle”, I didn’t think it was a good EGB episode and I don’t think RGB fans liked it much either – and not just because of the age thing, ok? We’re all agreed on that. What I’m saying is, for me, “Back in the Saddle” is proof enough that it wouldn’t have worked. Which could bring me onto my thoughts on RGB, which The Joker has actually asked me for so I’ll just sum up here if that’s ok. What you’ve just read wasn’t quite summing up, but it wasn’t everything. Anyway, I like RGB. It’s a good cartoon. I used to watch it when I was tiny in my tireless campaign to be just like my older brother, fool that I was. At that time I was so tiny that I forgot a lot about RGB when we stopped watching (I don’t know why we did) and only remembered the basics: the characters’ names, what they looked like, that I enjoyed it and I was in love with Peter. I saw a couple more episodes a few years on and remembered why I fell in love with Peter, but it didn’t do that much for me. A little more time elapsed, and now I can watch the odd episode on cable if I’m home and I can be bothered to get up, and it holds more interest for me after getting involved with Fritz and Ben and Briana and the rest of you and reading your stories. This isn’t summing up, is it… ok, basically, I like it a lot, but it’s a little way down my list of favourite cartoons. EGB is top, then maybe five or six others (I don’t actually have a definitive list, but you don’t want one anyway), then RGB, then s’more, k? …And I just can’t stand Egon’s RGB hair. I’ve heard of these Junior Ghostbusters once before during a discussion on GBN. The term is meaningless to me… I sense a response along the lines of: “Consider yourself lucky.”
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Post by Fritz on Jan 11, 2005 15:43:19 GMT -4
I’ve heard of these Junior Ghostbusters once before during a discussion on GBN. The term is meaningless to me… I sense a response along the lines of: “Consider yourself lucky.” And how. Basically, they were three ten year olds (or aroundabouts) who hung around the Ghostbusters in Season 2 and the Slimer! cartoons. Donald was a vaguely Latino wisecracker (imagine combining Venkman and Eduardo and then completely removing their actual wit, charisma, and intelligence); Jason was a nerd with a red flattop. And Catharine was a blonde girl. And that was pretty much the extent of their characters. They were one of the reasons J. Micheal Straczynski quit the show--between "Duh, Gee Slimer Little Buddy" Venkman, "Miss Gutless Mommy Helium" Janine, and having to shoehorn in these cliche'd tributes to the common misperceptions of the time ("We have to have characters their own age for the kids to Identify With!") he knew the show he'd so ingeniously developed was going to turn into a pile of sh*t (and he was right) Maybe, maybe not--it would've all depended on how any "official" offspring were depicted. The characters you know of as John and Eden were far from fully developed as such in 1997, and it would've been far easier to replace thier thematic predecessors with a 'real" kid or two. (To go on a tangent...the concept I had for many years had them named Albert and Marie (after Einstein and Curie); Albert was essentially a clone of Egon with red hair and a bit of temper; Marie was a clone of Janine with blonde hair (though sporting a conspicuously familiar tail) I essentially took them and merged them with some other character ideas I'd had over the years to create the Twins as we know them now) None at all--she seems to be the favorite in a lot of quarters. I think the only objection I had was them conspicuously giving her a smaller, lighter weapon than the boys. Janine always handled a regular pack; sure, Janine's pretty tough, but you can't convince me Kylie is that much less tough I agree with a lot of that--I sometimes forget about his disability myself (it comes into play in an upcoming story where the rest of the team rushes downstairs and he has to take the time to get to the elevator). I think the credible objection is just simply that a lot of people find it too large a suspension of disbelief that it could really work. And remember, I speak this with three months experience in being wheelchair bound--it's still hard to reconcile sometimes. It was worth the wait
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Jan 11, 2005 21:27:39 GMT -4
You know, actually Kylie was one of the few plus points in my personal estimation of EGB. Not only was she a female ghostbuster (yay!), but she was a great character, too. Was it ever explained in the show how he ended up in a wheelchair in the first place? It would have been interesting to know the circumstances behind that.
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Post by EGBFan on Jan 12, 2005 6:49:03 GMT -4
Was it ever explained in the show how he ended up in a wheelchair in the first place? It would have been interesting to know the circumstances behind that. We got a pretty concise explanation in "Grease" (the EGB ep, not John Travolta, surprisingly): "Disabled since birth." It's nice and easy - now everyone's gonna say it's an easy way out for the writers - but hey, it happens, and it's good enough for me anyway. I - um - hope I didn't sound aggressive with that remark about Kylie. The question was genuine, but the tone was tongue-in-cheek, if you see what I mean. The girl gun... hmm... well, "The Unseen" really needed it, and that's one of my favourite eps, but it's hardly an excuse I suppose. Janine can handle a proton pack, and so can I (bet you anything), and so can Kylie cos she does in that ep. But she's just so tiny - perhaps Egon was afraid of squashing her or something. Yeah, ok, that could be an insult to women everywhere. It's occurred to me before, but since I don't like messing with things like that in my own stuff there's not much I can do about it. I could maybe just query it in a story... I don't think Kylie was any less tough than Janine, or at least not so you'd notice, but maybe if Fritz disagrees with that it's because Janine is one of his favourite characters and Kylie is one of mine. I can only base my opinion of Janine on the 12-odd RGB episodes I've seen recently, when she was in the stage Fritz likes her at. Yeah, she's a tough cookie, but I think she only outdoes Kylie in height and volume. Anyway, I think John and Eden are way better than anything the bigwigs could have come up with. I think Fritz would have come up with the twins eventually, especially if the kid(s) on the show was/were no good. At any rate I think it's safer for a devoted E/J shipper to come up with their kids himself - that way he gets what he wants and we get something pretty cool out of it too. I'm really enjoying having total scope on Eduardo and Kylie's kids, but I don't have the issue of it-should-have-happened-years-ago. Hmm... I was about to say that cartoons don't tend to do that, but I can think of three cartoons in which someone has a baby. Fritz, your "following my lead" always makes me feel kinda special. It'll go to my head if I'm not careful... Anyway, just to put you on the spot, I'm asking publicly if you have any more EGB stories planned. Cos it'd be nice to read one from our circle that wasn't written by me. When I read those I always know what's going to happen. Ok, I'm done.
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Post by Fritz on Jan 12, 2005 11:31:55 GMT -4
Anyway, just to put you on the spot, I'm asking publicly if you have any more EGB stories planned. Cos it'd be nice to read one from our circle that wasn't written by me. When I read those I always know what's going to happen. Well, yeah... ;D "Gathering Gloom" (title subject to change) has been added to my "to-do" list. It's intended as a follow-up in ways to "Dreams Reborn", and there will be a big subplot concerning the RGB characters, but it's down as an EGB story.
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Jan 12, 2005 14:21:34 GMT -4
I think a major part of the attraction of the OGBs though is the fact that they weren't traditional superheroes either. They're scientists using equipment cobbled together from whatever they could get their hands on, operating out of an old firehouse in a (according to what Egon says in GB1) pretty rough area of Manhattan. They were first and foremost a business, and this is emphasised heavily in both movies and in several RGB episodes (most notably 'Ghost Busted'). The only thing superhero-ish about them was the fact they had a groovy theme tune.
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Post by ghostdiva on Jan 12, 2005 23:01:59 GMT -4
Okay, I have yet to post in this section, and a lot of people know little about my specific interests so here goes. I liked EGB, I didn't vote because I think it was rather equal to RGB but different, which is not a bad thing in my opinion. I remember the first time I saw the show, I was in my senior year of highschool and my family's home computer had been broken for a while, so I was out of the loop. I had no idea this sho existed. So at this point I spent my mornings alone, and my friend as picking me up for school, so I ould flip through the stations... so a cartoon is just starting, and hat I as looking at as the EGB episode ith the R.L.Stine spoof, and the monsters ere saing this boy in half, and I think to myself, gee... this looks like a storyline that ghostbusters would use... then about five seconds later the intro starts, with a PKE meter, and some new version of the theme song... I went hysterical... then of course, my friend pulled up. So I had to wait and tape it the next day, and then wait all day to go home and watch it. Anyay like I said I knew nothing about the show. So I didn't know who these new people where, or what had happened to the guys. So I taped all of the episodes and watch them to this day. It does bother me that Egon and Janine had aparently backtracked, but you guys make me feel better through the timeline, you fixed stuff and now it works ;D. About the E/J having kids stuff, it would have been great, personally in my universe they have four kids, also with a set of twins, curious no? I really like the new team, honestly the only thing I don't like was Garrett, our personalities would clash. So it's just his attitude, I also felt that Egon seemed to have lost some intellect along the way, I mean he had to reference his own book, what's with that? I have Profs. here who wrote there own textbooks, and they definately, don't have to reference their own books, maybe to tell you the exact page a diagram is on, but not for basic info. But I liked the show I wish it had had another season to see where things would go, new characters get better with time, in most cases, and writers get a better grip on the story line, so it would have been cool. This post is long enough now ghostdiva
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Post by EGBFan on Jan 13, 2005 4:39:21 GMT -4
Well, yeah... ;D "Gathering Gloom" (title subject to change) has been added to my "to-do" list. It's intended as a follow-up in ways to "Dreams Reborn", and there will be a big subplot concerning the RGB characters, but it's down as an EGB story. Cool... ;D No disrespect to the rest of you, but I like Ghostdiva's way of looking at EGB for what it is rather than comparing every detail to RGB. That's kinda what I did, but unlike her I still have a clear favourite. I didn't much like Garrett in 1997/8 either, but I've cheered up a lot since then and now I think he's absolutely brilliant. I'm not venturing an opinion on the non-superhero-ish issue. It was just something I read on the web. If you guys want to shut me up the best thing to do would be stop giving your opinions on EGB. ;D
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