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Post by EGBFan on Nov 29, 2004 10:51:53 GMT -4
Well, it's probably my fault for being pedantic. Since this seems to have turned into a full-blown discussion, I'll say that "1984" didn't really do anything for me either way. I liked it ok but I think I read it quite lazily... Orwell probably intended it to make me think. It's got a good reputation because it's perfect if you like that sort of thing, and also it's another one of those books that was revolutionary for its time.
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Post by OgreBBQ on Dec 1, 2004 3:00:57 GMT -4
A couple of other good books about politics and the human herd mentality are Animal Farm (also by Orwell) and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.
Animal Farm is probably the most accessible of the three. It uses a parable of a group of farm animals staging a coup d'etat against their owner and declaring themselves an independent entity where all creatures OTHER than humans are equal... for about three days. Then the animals start breaking up into factions and vying for control of the farm.
Brave New World is (to paraphrase its author) a study of human madness. It is an exploration of a high tech society that has just plain lost its mind. From genetically engineered babies custom designed to performing specific tasks to people who live by a philosophy of: "If you're feeling off-your-best, there's something in the medicine cabinet that will make you happy."
If you do decide to spend the effort and thought required to appreciate these works, they will give you a lot to think about. Very little of it pleasant.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 1, 2004 7:42:28 GMT -4
I'm reading a brilliant political satire: "Accidental Death of an Anarchist" by Dario Fo - it's a play, and thankfully my version has been translated from the original Italian (somebody's now going to post a message saying the playwrite is actually Portugese or something - I'm almost sure it was Italian though). "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman is an interesting piece of feminist literature in which the protagonist goes completely nuts - although I had to read it a couple of times before I actually liked it (it's only short). I'm also reading something by Pat Barker - a very good British writer - she always has something interesting to say about people, always a fascinating subject. I've read a few of her novels - any of them are recommended.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 6, 2004 8:42:07 GMT -4
Further to my last post, I finished reading that Pat Barker novel a couple of days ago. It was "The Man Who Wasn't There" - and I take it back. About halfway through the novel I really thought it went downhill, and I was very disappointed with the ending - not at all up to usual Barker standard.
Same goes for "Accidental Death of an Anarchist". There was always a slapstick aspect to it but in the second and final act it became too much and it just got silly. I've decided to stop recommending clever literary books - I firmly believe that reading should be as much fun as possible. I am now recommending the "Adrian Mole" series by Sue Townsend, although I do think it peaks on the second book: "The Growing Pains of Adrian Mole" - but in fairness I haven't read the new one yet ("Adrian Mole and the Weapons of Mass Destruction").
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Post by Fritz on Dec 8, 2004 11:16:23 GMT -4
Boy, you're making me feel uneducated here...
The last two political books I read were a little different. I read "Dude, Where's My Country?" by Micheal Moore in rehab, and shortly after I left the hospital got ahold of "Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Righ" by Al Franken. Both very very informative, funny...
And downright depressing, especially after the election.
How in the hell could anyone vote for a man that said "More and more of our imports are coming from foreign countries" and "I know how hard it is to put food on your family"? ! ? !
The mind boggles...
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 9, 2004 3:39:25 GMT -4
Boy, you're making me feel uneducated here... The last two political books I read were a little different. I read "Dude, Where's My Country?" by Micheal Moore in rehab, and shortly after I left the hospital got ahold of "Lies and the Lying Liars that Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Righ" by Al Franken. Both very very informative, funny... And downright depressing, especially after the election. How in the hell could anyone vote for a man that said "More and more of our imports are coming from foreign countries" and "I know how hard it is to put food on your family"? ! ? ! The mind boggles... Ha - brilliant! I've longed for the day I'd make you feel uneducated, Fritz, and frankly I never thought it would come. A couple of the books I mentioned were actually assigned texts that I have to read for my course, but I read way too much anyway. And onto George W - brilliant! They stopped it a couple of years ago, but at least until sometime after Bush's first election there used to be a TV show on at New Year for sad people like me with no parties to go to. It's difficult to explain, but basically it was kind of like a talk show rounding up the last year. A section on the stupidest/funniest quotes of the year was included in what I seem to remember was the last show, including a lot of "Bush-isms" (a term I first heard from "Fraiser"'s Jane Leves). The imports one was in there, and another one I remember is: "I want this to be the greatest nation of Americans in the world." Hahahaha... I'd like to say I'm glad he's not running my country, but he's got a ridiculous amount of influence over our Prime Minister (who, by the way, is almost as bad) so in a way he kind of is. I mean those guys are practically in bed together, for crying out loud!
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Post by Fritz on Dec 10, 2004 20:05:17 GMT -4
I used to like Tony Blair until he became Bush's poodle, actually. And at times I still feel a pang of sympathy for the position he's in--I get the impression he supported the war out of friendship with the US and honest belief that Saddam had WMD. Whereas Bush wanted to go to war because Saddam tried to knock off his dad, and Dick Cheney told him to ("Haliburton needs more money, George. Iraq has lots of oil...") There's a guy who collects all of Bush's moronic ramblings and posts them. Check out "Bushisms: The Accidental Wit and Wisdom of George Bush" here: slate.msn.com/id/76886/And, er, to get a little on topic...how's everyone like the latest version of the Christmas look? I basically swiped the colors from the Proboards Support Forum except for the red. ;D
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raysgal
Extreme Ghostbuster
Ooohhh...
Posts: 58
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Post by raysgal on Dec 10, 2004 21:48:42 GMT -4
I like how this looks. It's really nice. Very subtle. Excellent job, Fritz.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 11, 2004 16:05:06 GMT -4
Fritz, you used to like Blair? Uhuhuhuhuh... well, I don't know to what extent you're aware of how the Labour Party used to be, and how Blair has very quickly dragged it all the way over from the left to the right. He made a few promises he didn't keep... not that that's unique to him by any means, and they weren't particularly great promises... and he's handled a lot of things badly apart from the whole Bush thing. I don't know whether Blair genuinely believes there are WMD, but I suppose if that's what Bush told him he'd probably believe it. It just worries me that a guy so weak and easily led is in charge of the country. As to the new colour scheme, I like it a lot. I've mentioned before that I'm not a fan of green generally (although I like grass and trees and stuff) but as Raysgal says, this is more subtle, and I think it's actually kinda nice.
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Post by Fritz on Dec 11, 2004 17:17:40 GMT -4
Like I said..."used to"...as you might have guessed I lean to the left of center myself, and what kind of did it for me is the way Blair seemed to pretty much mirror the guys in charge of the US. He was more liberal when Democrat Bill Clinton was in office, then veered right when the Bush was installed by our Supreme Court. Or at least that's the impression what I've read gives me (our press doesn't pay much attention to British politics unless some member of the Royal Family is embarrassing themselves)
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The Joker
Doberman
The Smoker, The Midnight Toker
Posts: 95
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Post by The Joker on Dec 12, 2004 8:10:04 GMT -4
And that's even forgetting the fact that Blair is a lying, power-hungry, Stalinist creep of the highest order. Blair's support of the Iraq war may give you the impression he's right-wing, but no. New Labour are these days the party of political correctness, multiculturalism, mass immigration, "buzzwords", change for the sake of change, total and utter submission to the EU and America (which is a contradiction in and of itself) and an underhanded and domineering desire to reshape everything in their image. And the really sad thing is is that the people of this country will probably vote them in again because so many folk are scared sh*tless of the Conservatives. Hard times indeed. Oh, and on a positive note, I'm finding I'm liking these colours better. Fritz, you've obviously taken my St. Patrick's Day suggestion to heart.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 12, 2004 8:13:29 GMT -4
Well, the Labour Party really started out as the people's party, as left-wing as it gets, I think when it was founded we little people were having a really rubbish time, I don't know that much about it. I think Blair has always been too right-wing for the Labour Party... at any rate not left-wing enough... I'm not saying you're wrong, Fritz, but I wonder how edited US information on British politics is since I happened to mention Tony Blair to an American e-mail pal (nobody around these parts) and he wrote back and asked, "Who's Tony Blair?" I also have a high-flying solicitor aunt who works closely with Americans... she says they know almost nothing about this stuff... but they sound like executive morons to me. I don't know - perhaps I'm wrong. I've come back and added this bit just to mean to Fritz, after looking back over this topic (I can't leave where I am until my bus comes and I'm bored, ok?). Ha... you read "1984" before I was born. Interesting thought, that you were reading intelligent books while I didn't even exist yet. (I told you I was bored. )
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Post by Fritz on Dec 26, 2004 12:23:57 GMT -4
Well, it's the 26th so things are going back to normal.
Normal being a fairly relative term around here, of course.
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Post by OgreBBQ on Dec 27, 2004 2:23:55 GMT -4
Haven't checked in for a while, mea culpa (that's "my bad", in latin)
In a token nod to the topic of this thread, I'm enjoying the board's return to more somber colors.
Now on to politics.
The truth of the matter is that one has to go well out of their way to find news about anything that doesn't happen in the USA if one lives there. After all, we are more and more behaving as if we were the only nation on earth that matters. So unless your country is either licking our boots or annoying us, most people here don't give you a second thought. This is just sad.
Word to the wise: don't annoy the US if you have oil. You can oppress your people and build forbidden weapons all you want (North Korea), but if you have oil, we will come down on you, HARD (Iraq). Of course, we won't use enough troops to keep you in line once we do, but that doesn't rebuild your cities or bring your dead friends and relatives back.
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Post by EGBFan on Dec 27, 2004 9:10:12 GMT -4
Haven't checked in for a while, mea culpa (that's "my bad", in latin) In a token nod to the topic of this thread, I'm enjoying the board's return to more somber colors. Al, you misery! You know some Latin? Whoa. Ok, let's see if I can remember this... Latin is a language As dead as dead can be, It killed the ancient Romans And now it's killing me. I don't know how famous that is and who here is likely to have heard it before. I read it in a very funny boys' boarding school comedy. I don't remember which book - it's a whole series by a guy called Anthony Buckeridge. I'll be very surprised if you tell me that ever made it to America. Politics... politics... I don't believe this - I can't think of anything to say. That's got to be a first. Ok, so do any of you American-type people watch "Dead Ringers" on BBC America? I hear it's popular over there, if only for John Culshaw's George W impression. I think most of us from the UK will have seen at least a couple of episodes.
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