BlackMaria
Doberman
Jersey Devil
Sharpening the Fence Posts
Posts: 126
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Post by BlackMaria on Jan 2, 2007 14:35:03 GMT -4
This piece was a great venue for venting problems w/characters' portrayals. I felt the cartoon made Ray juvenile. Childlike & childish got confused. Winston (esp in fanfic) talks stereotypically black; he might as well be speaking Ebonics! The gay subtext was wonderful. (See the Kirk/Spock pieces out there: ew). I thought Slimer @ the end might swoop in to save the day, thus upstaging Mary Sue. There a few great parody stories out there.
I could make a list of my GB pet peeves that would be longer than my Christmas Wish List!
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Post by Silent Seraphim on Jan 2, 2007 15:59:41 GMT -4
Believe me, I tried to keep in mind the mistakes made with just about every character. Egon: Immediately fell in love with Mary Sue. Supposedly "never in love with Janine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. ...And also when he sounds like a talking Thesaurus. I hate it when writers give him ridiculously convoluted language when he's only asking someone what the time is, or telling someone to stop doing something. Sure he's intelligent, but he can use simple phrases when he has to. Demonstration of his intellect is best reserved for exposition, I think.
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Post by TheRazorsEdge on Jan 11, 2007 5:51:21 GMT -4
That's why I personally prefer Movie Egon to RGB Egon.
RGB Egon, being a cartoon character, was played closer to the brainy guy archetype, using a lot more technobabble, whereas Ramis played him more like an ordinary person who just happened to be very, very smart. Aykroyd's Ray tended to be the one who used the bigger words.
So I think perhaps a lot of the misportrayals in fan fiction are just because they're written by people who are obviously fans of the animated versions, to the exclusion of the live-action portrayals.
I think an important thing to remember when writing Egon is that this guy once grabbed Walter Peck by the collar screaming "Your mother!", lol.
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BlackMaria
Doberman
Jersey Devil
Sharpening the Fence Posts
Posts: 126
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Post by BlackMaria on Jan 11, 2007 13:05:17 GMT -4
That's why I personally prefer Movie Egon to RGB Egon. RGB Egon, being a cartoon character, was played closer to the brainy guy archetype, using a lot more technobabble, whereas Ramis played him more like an ordinary person who just happened to be very, very smart. Aykroyd's Ray tended to be the one who used the bigger words. I think an important thing to remember when writing Egon is that this guy once grabbed Walter Peck by the collar screaming "Your mother!", lol. I noticed in both films, Ray also uses analogies (like a frog on a hotplate), massive lists or long winded descriptions.
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Jason Knetge
Doberman
The Data Says He Will Kick Your Ass
Posts: 115
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Post by Jason Knetge on Jan 11, 2007 17:31:13 GMT -4
I think an important thing to remember when writing Egon is that this guy once grabbed Walter Peck by the collar screaming "Your mother!", . I was planning on doing a follow up fight but I have other stuff to get dun first before I start it I still wont to do it so I'm calling dibs
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Post by Mick Nielson on Jan 12, 2007 2:23:19 GMT -4
Wow. I know some of that stuff is true because when some people write the guys they do go way out of character and make Ray act like a baby. When I write my stories I keep them mostly in character and for Ray, too. He does swear once in a while. I write him like an adult. Absolutely, because there's a HUGE difference between acting like a child and getting easily excited about what your job is. Ray just loves every second of being a Ghostbuster and isnt afraid to show it. I've written two stories with Ray in them and he is ALWAYS shown as an intelligent adult character (making very long speeches of course). Dont wanna get too far off-topic though, so I'll just say this: Fritz, loved the story, reveals all our aggravations with Mary Sue characters (and more importantly, the people who control them), this should be on all the fan fiction communities as a "what not to do" guide for writing fictions. Tip of the hat to you sir and a wag of the finger to Mary Sue's everywhere.
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BlackMaria
Doberman
Jersey Devil
Sharpening the Fence Posts
Posts: 126
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Post by BlackMaria on Jan 12, 2007 12:52:45 GMT -4
Another fanfic pet peeve is when (probably Caucasian) writers make Winston talk "black" using words like homeboy &/or homies. I've read it in so many stories & it infuriates me! In neither film did Zeddemore use those words. At this point. they might as well make Winston talk like that Fat Albert character whom nobody can understand.
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Post by Miss Janine on Jan 12, 2007 13:27:46 GMT -4
In the cartoon, Winston did sound somewhat black in terms of the words he used, so I don't see a major jump in how he "sounds" in the fanfics, unless it's TOO out there.
GO RAVENS!
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Post by Mick Nielson on Jan 12, 2007 13:39:10 GMT -4
hmmm, I dont think so. Winston never once uttered the words brotha or homie during the entire run of the show. He pretty much did talk like Ernie Hudson did on the flicks. Winston is not a gangsta by any stretch of the imagination, he's the everyman of the group and talks like that. I always said he sounded like a common New Yorker in those movies, not strictly a common BLACK New Yorker, which was why I liked the setup of the team, they didnt ever really make Winston into "The black Ghostbuster" even though people in the cummunity have called him that.
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Post by Fritz on Jan 12, 2007 14:35:13 GMT -4
Calling Winston the "black Ghostbuster" might be more of a shorthand or a convienience. Since, you know, he's a Ghostbuster and he's the only black one (in the original team, anyway) Now there is one line in the Fact List which mentions "Has been known to call Egon "Homeboy" and Peter "Flyboy" on occasion. "...but I don't see an actual citation for it. I may have to consult the source documents...I think that's one of the parts Dr. Riddle wrote, and I can't really ask him about it. Still, as Labidolemur put it: So no, Winston is NOT a gangsta or anything like it. He'd probably more agree with Bill Cosby that gangstas are "knuckleheads". Labidolemur summed up some of the other mistakes quite well, too:
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Post by TheRazorsEdge on Jan 14, 2007 0:20:28 GMT -4
Pete always seemed to be better friends with Ray than he did with Egon, at least to me...Really makes me wonder where these bad fanfic clichés actually come from.
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Post by Kingpin on Jan 14, 2007 15:55:14 GMT -4
Pete always seemed to be better friends with Ray than he did with Egon, at least to me...Really makes me wonder where these bad fanfic clichés actually come from. Most likely the result of people wanting to clamp on lables. The notion that Peter and Egon have a friendship of more then friends, or unrelated brothers has never really stood up that much to the slight breeze of reason.
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Post by Fritz on Jan 14, 2007 20:55:34 GMT -4
Well, it's pretty much accepted that Egon and Venkman were the first of the characters to meet each other; there was even a line in the GB1 script that might not say, but strongly implies that. (At the very least, Egon knew Venkman and Venkman knew Ray before Egon knew Ray, because Venkman introduced them). And I do agree that sometimes, Venkman and Egon's friendship is over-emphasized. The whole foursome are as close as siblings, not just one particular twosome. As to why that is, I dunno. The main guesses I can make: they're generally the two most popular, especially among the fans more familiar with the cartoons. So the slash writers "naturally" say "They're my two favorites, so let's have them fall in love despite their clearly heterosexual tendencies in the canon" Oh, and something to add actually concerning the story: www.deviantart.com/deviation/46670713/
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Jason Knetge
Doberman
The Data Says He Will Kick Your Ass
Posts: 115
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Post by Jason Knetge on Jan 14, 2007 22:49:05 GMT -4
Dang you beat me to it ;D
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Post by Mick Nielson on Jan 15, 2007 2:15:02 GMT -4
Well Ray and Peter obviously do have a very strong respect for each other and are very much like brothers (Venkman being the older). Their friendship is one of a back and forth between the two, but it becomes most apparent on the rooftop of the Shandor building that they have a close bond. Because the two of them exchange words before they go into what (they think) will be a suicide move. None of the others say things to each other, just Pete and Ray. Now dont get me wrong, I think Peter and Egon's friendship is just as strong, but Egon tries to distance himself because he's a scientist and is strictly business about it. Even though everyone and he knows that he does care about the others and they all have a family relationship going.
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